Moving Domes on a 2-8-0

[jonathan]

I've searched and searched the forum, poked and prodded... Finally I couldn't take it anymore and took a pair of pliers to a Consolidation to remove the domes.

Will have to fill in the large hole as that dome will be moved forward--actually replaced with a brass dome.  The other hole will be covered with another brass dome.

Willing to take any tips on how to fill in the forward hole.   

Ouch!




Other parts have been removed as well.  They were easier to yank out.

Regards,

Jonathan

[blf]

Johnathan: When I run into a problem like this, I first take a number of thickness's of masking tape to cover the hole. When I feel it is stiff enough I cover the opening, being carefull not to touch the opening after application as in an area as large as you're trying to fill, the tape will sag a bit, hence the need for layers. Then fill the hole with a tooling epoxy. You have to work slowly as air bubbles get trapped. Don't make the first layer to thick as you can hold it up to a light to check for bubbles. If you find any close to the surface, open them up and patch. then you can make it as thick as you need. When set, 4 to 8 hours or when you can confirm the epoxy has set (not dry) you can remove the tape which may need a little plastic filler to match the contour. I use a product called Devcon Epoxy , the slow set ,not the fast set. It has one tube that is black and one that is ivory in color. Mix 1 to 1, so its idiot proof. Have been using there plastic steel epoxy to cast cars and parts from my own masters since the late sixty's. The only things Ive found to wreck the stuff is apple cider vinegar and denatured alcohol. Lacquer thinner doesn't seem to bother it when wiping it to remove oils, pr yer to painting. You can drill and tap the stuff. I use the epoxy all the time for projects on the bench. Bill

[Doneldon]

jonathan-

Put a thin sheet of styrene -- thin enough that you can contour it to the shape of the boiler jacket -- inside the boiler and let it dry. Then use some squadron putty or Bondo to fill the low area. Once that has cured you can file and sand the patch to the exact shape of the boiler. This method results in the least intrusion into the boiler volume so yo are least likely to have any clearance problems.
                                                                                                                                                                   -- D

[beampaul7]

Jonathan

There was an article in MR in whitch Ian Rice did this for Marty McGuirck on a kitbash to make the Bachmann 2-8-0 look like a B&M? loco.  If I remember correctly this was also reprinted in a Kalmbach book called "Steam Locomotives which is still in print last time I looked.  I think Ian did something like what D was talking about.

Hope this helps,

Paul G

[jonathan]

Thanks for the advice, guys.  I'm going to try two methods.  The filler suggestion (wonderful) will be tried on the smaller hole.

On the larger hole, I'm trying this:

Construction paper over the hole:


Trace the pattern from underneath:



Transfer to some plastic.  This is resin from a craftsman kit:


This is a 3/4" socket.  Now for a heat gun and some prayers:


Potato Chip:


Fortunately, it's a bit too large, so I can file down to fit:


I tried this way first, because I have the tools and materials.  If it doesn't work, it's off to Michael's or a Hobby store to get the stuff to use the filler method.

Thanks again.  

Regards,

Jonathan

[jonathan]

Just a little update...

I beveled the edges of both the potato chip and the hole.  This got the pieces to snuggle in tight.





This doesn't show up in a photo, but I filled the underneath space with epoxy.  When that cures, I will run a tiny bead of epoxy around the seam on the outside.  Then it's on to fun with tiny strips of sand paper and a little paint.



If anyone were curious about this project, I'm attempting to build a B&O E-27b from an undecorated Connie (with Sound).  Have ordered some detail parts from various places. 

Here's a couple shots of the tender.  I added panels to the coal bunker along with making the back panel perpendicular (as the B&O was want to do).  All I need for the tender is a Doghouse.  Talk about mission impossible.  If anyone has a source for doghouses, I would be grateful to know about it.

Regards,

Jonathan

[ryeguyisme]

Go Jonny go! I'm watching this thread due interest in the same topic, I want to be able to do this to a bunch of bachmann engines I have to make them less generic

[blf]

Jonathan: Don't use a filler much harder than the boiler plastic or you are asking for trouble. Many times when I run into this situation with plastic, I use a paint that has started to thicken a bit and paint the seam. When dry, redo if needed. Have found that fillers in such a small crack pulls lose when sanded down to cover. Paint adheres tighter. Probably the best approach for the boiler band is to remove the remaining cast on segments and replace it with a strip cut from .005 styrene and epoxy it down. Don't use a Keytone based glue , as the .005 styrene will melt do to the thickness of the styrene. Another approach I use is to lightly paint lacquer thinner to the seam. Be carefull not to overdue this, as it is a Keytone and must evaporate before you reapply. Great idea an really looks like it will be successful. Best wishes . Bill

[Doneldon]

Jonathan-

I think Blackstone sells their dog houses as separate pieces. I don't know how many different models they have, maybe only one. In the alternative, scratchbuilding a doghouse shouldn't be too hard since it's such a small, simple structure with all straight parts. Unsurprisingly, your work looks terrific so far.
                                                                                                                    -- D

[jonathan]

Rye,

I'll keep posting as I make progress on the boiler.  Thanks.

Bill,

Thanks for the tip on the seam.  I like the thick paint idea, especially if I use a strange color like green or blue.  Then I can see my progress as I sand.  Hadn't occured to me that epoxy was a stronger material than the boiler plastic and resin potato chip.  I wonder if plain old spackle is too weak?

I have some styrene, I THINK, is the right width for the boiler band.  And yes, I was going to use epoxy to attach it.

This area is going to have some parts sitting on top:  double feed check valve, bell and a little piping.  So I think any minor boo-boos will be somewhat hidden by the appliances and a little weathering.

Regards,

Jonathan

P.S.  Thanks, Doneldon.  I learned it all here.    Will have to check out Blackstone.  Greenway only has the PRR version left in their inventory.  Somebody use to sell a white metal kit, can't remember who.

[Doneldon]

I wonder if plain old spackle is too weak?

Jonathan-

It's strong enough but it's brittle when cured. I would expect the seam to open up fairly quickly and you don't want that. Even latex spackle would be too brittle. Too, thick wall paint with larger pigments covers up the grain in spackle very well but model paints might not.
                                                                                                                        -- D

[blf]

Jonathan : Squadron Products makes a filler that model airplane guys use. Green putty (green tube) is a little hard and have noticed it shrinks a little, even after long periods of time. They also have a product that's very soft (white tube) and is easy to sand. Both products are in most hobby shops. Tamiya makes a product I have read wonderfull reviews about, but haven't seen any yet. The spackle is water based and wont stick, The material I discussed is a solvet base but is made for plastic. bill

[jonathan]

OK, I'm trying the thick-paint trick to see what happens. Will let it sit for a day before I start sanding.  My new domes arrived last night.  They seem a bit small to my eye, but you take what you can get.  On the bright side they fit the boiler well, so not much adjustment is required:




Finished the tender this morning.  I sealed up some holes due to my raising the coal load.  Hopefully, this will keep the sound working efficiently:



Regards,

Jonathan

Addendum

Having just checked my prototype photos, the domes don't seem that small to me, now.  They are certainly closer to the stock domes.  They will get a skosh taller when I add the cover plate and big nut on the top.   

[electrical whiz kid]

Jonathan;
Why not construct your own doghouse by scratchbuilding?  You see, guys; this is where getting comfortable with scratchbuilding can get you out of a jam fairly easily.  There are several good references as well as some back-issues in several modelling mags.
Rich

[J3a-614]

Excellent work, something I haven't tried yet myself!

Jonathan, I'd second Whiz Kid's suggestion and consider scratchbuilding that doghouse.  The photos I could find of them showed structures that were pretty basic--actually, crude in some cases--and very likely at least some were cobbled up by a shop crew somewhere.  You could use almost any material--plastic, thin metal, even paper or cardstock--to form what is essentially a small box with door and window details.  Unless I had real specific drawings or other information to accurately scale the 'house, I'd also fasten it very lightly to the tender deck, the idea being that it would be easy to remove if I decided I'd want to build a better one.  Of course, keep in mind that a light fastening will also make it easy to knock off by accident. . .

Of course, you've no doubt noticed that a lot of B&O freight engines didn't use a doghouse to provide a seat for the brakeman, but had a little seating extension to the cab on the left side.  It's hard to tell, but it looks like those extensions may have narrowed the gangway between engine and tender; they certainly introduced some unusual handrails on the left side.  Wonder what it was like to ride in that compartment that was just big enough for your butt, and had your butt hanging out in the gangway?

An out-of-service E-27 No. 205 (renumbered in the mid-1950s to make room for more diesels) shows off this extension on the cab.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo205sa.jpg

Same engine from the other side, apparently at about the same time, with what looks like the same 2-8-2 coupled behind it:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo205s.jpg

We'll close with a link to a bunch of color B&O photos that turned up in the search at Northeast Railfan; have fun:

Basic link to the galleries of the photo provider:

http://eriksenphoto.smugmug.com/

Standard gauge gallery:

http://eriksenphoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Standard-gauge

B&O in the 1950s:

http://eriksenphoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Standard-gauge/Baltimore-Ohio-Railroad/2510583_FZDZBQ#!i=133776612&k=sPcYE

From the early days of the B&O Museum in Baltimore:

http://eriksenphoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Standard-gauge/Baltimore-Ohio-Railroad-Museum/2510790_fLHKmP#!i=131838896&k=FPrDx

Have fun.