Spectrum Ma & Pa, SAL and general 4-4-0 / 4-6-0 questions.

[Searsport]

Hi, I am wondering:

1. Are the Ma & Pa 4-4-0 #4 and #5 models identical apart from the numbers, or are there other detail differences? (Bachmann 83403, 83404).

2.  Do these two and the other Richmond and Baldwin 4-4-0s and 4-6-0s with the dual mode chip come with jumpers so that the chip can be disconnected?

3.  Specifically including SAL Richmond #159 (Bachmann 83408), and SAL Baldwin #108 (Bachmann 80104).

I ask because I have decided to retain a DC layout as it is not practical to convert all my older engines to DCC and sound, (and I want all the engines on my DCC layout to have sound as there is no point in having some with and others without), but I have found that under DC the older DC / DCC ready engines can be controlled much better especially at slow speeds than their dual mode chip fitted exact counterparts.  My specific example is the Baldwin 4-6-0 DC, DCC ready Ma & Pa #27 (Bachmann 82302) compared with the DCC & sound Ma & Pa #28 (Bachmann 84905).   I have found this with two different controllers: an old H&M Duette (my test track), and a more modern Gaugemaster Combi (my old layout).

Grateful for any info.  As I have to buy on-line I can't ask the retailer.

Thanks,
Bill.

[MilwaukeeRoadfan261]

The Ma & Pa #4 & #5 are identical except for the numbers. And most bachmann engines come with jumpers so you can make the engine DC instead of DCC.

[Searsport]

Hi, thanks for advice so far.  I have now received my SAL Baldwin and Richmond 4-4-0s, the jumpers are included and converting to plain DC looks straightforward, but I have further questions. 

Very nice models!  And a nice contrast between domes, chimney, fittings, tenders.

How easy is it to swap the boiler fittings without damaging the loco or paintwork? 

The Baldwin comes fitted with what I term medium fluted domes on the boiler, but has a packet containing a set of what I term extreme fluted domes.  The exploded diagram suggests that the domes sit on pegs which are part of the boiler casting.  There is no indication of how the domes are fixed, but I assume they are glued.  Is that correct and how firmly are they are fixed?  And are the boiler and domes painted before assembly or sprayed afterwards?

I don't necessarily intend to do any dome swapping, as I have not yet found a photo of SAL #108 and so for the present I am assuming that those fitted are correct, but it might be an option if Bachmann re-issue the 4-4-0 with new numbers, as using the extreme fluted domes would further distinguish the engines.

Should the Baldwin have included wood and oil bunker loads for the tender?
Should a wood burner have a spark arrestor chimney?

My Baldwin only had the coal load, and the exploded diagram only shows that the Great Northern should have an oil bunker, and the wood load is not mentioned at all, but the description on MB Klein's website said the SAL model should include all three options, and when I contacted Klein's they generously sent me a wood load taken from another model. 

The importance is that the SAL 4-4-0s were mainly used on branch lines and some did burn wood until quite late as it was cheaper than coal the further you got from Alabama!  But I am not sure if it is enough just to change the tender load from coal to wood.  I have not yet found directly relevant photos.

What is the provenance of the Bachmann choice of road numbers? 

I cannot find Baldwin 4-4-0 #108 or Richmond 4-4-0 #159 in the Seaboard loco rosters or in any google searches.  Has the Bachmann invented these engines, hence my inability to find them, or have I just not looked hard enough?  #108 might be an ex-Georgia & Alabama engine with its pre-1911 number, or #108 and #159 might represent engines after 1911 when surviving 4-4-0s were renumbered into a single 100 series.

I appreciate this may be the wrong site to ask some of these questions, but as Bachmann produced the models, presumably based on some research, it seems the place to start.

Any chance the Bachmann will re-issue the Baldwin 4-6-0 as a SAL engine? 
The 4-6-0 was the most numerous SAL type at one time, and was used both for passenger and freight.

TIA,
Bill.

[Searsport]

Hi, I have now found that:

The real SAL #159 (the number used by Bachmann for the "Richmond") was one of a pair (159 & 160) built 1898 by the Cooke Locomotive and Machine Works of Paterson, New Jersey for the Florida Central & Peninsula Railway.  These two seem well inside wood burning territory, and I have also found a photo of an FC&PRR 4-4-0 with a straight chimney and a tender loaded with wood, so I know I don't need a spark arrestor for a wood burner, though most of the FC&PRR wood burners shown do have spark arrestors fitted.

The real SAL #106 and 108 (the numbers used by Bachmann for their "Baldwin") were a pair built 1889 by the Rhode Island Locomotive Works for the Seaboard. I don't know where they operated.  I assume that as Bachmann used the numbers they may have started from photos, and I wonder if anyone has references?  The info I have is that many SAL coal burning 4-4-0s which moved south when relegated to branch line work were converted for wood burning, but I don't know what the conversion entailed.

That leaves my remaining modelling question, how are the domes on these 4-4-0 models secured and how easy is it to swap the domes without damaging the engine or paintwork?

TIA,
Bill.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

That leaves my remaining modelling question, how are the domes on these 4-4-0 models secured and how easy is it to swap the domes without damaging the engine or paintwork?

I'd be interested in knowing that, too. I'd actually like to backdate my Baldwin by installing the older style domes, but, for me, the model is too expensive too much of an investment to risk damaging it swapping the domes.

And my engine doesn't seem to have a "predrilled" place for mounting the bell, either. 

JBJ

[richg]

Some here might be interested in the below link about the 4-6-0.

http://www.cwrail.com/index.html

Rich

[richg]

If you want to go back to 1895, look at the below site.

http://www.sandcrr.com/

Rich

[blwfish]

I'd actually like to backdate my Baldwin by installing the older style domes, but, for me, the model is too expensive too much of an investment to risk damaging it swapping the domes.

What's the worst that can happen?  You destroy the boiler?  You can buy a replacement boiler casting for a whole lot less money than the whole locomotive...

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

What's the worst that can happen?  You destroy the boiler?  You can buy a replacement boiler casting for a whole lot less money than the whole locomotive...

Some folks might not have such a casual attitude about destroying the boiler of an expensive model and having to buy and install a new one.