Bachmann Annoucements for new locomoitives

[Rashputin]

I still think Bachmann should take their PRR K4 boiler and put a 2-8-2 mechanism under it and with a few modifications have a very nice PRR L1 Mike.  BLI is coming out with a PRR H10 2-8-0 and it's going to sell really, really, well given the number of people I've seen talking about ordering four or more for delivery next year.  I can see that being a bestseller for them for years for BLI.  The same would be true of the L1 since it's never been out except in brass and seems like a favorite for a lot of PRR fans as well as other folks.  Bachmann should steal a march on BLI with an L1 since BLI seems to be trying to become THE source for PRR engines.  If Bachmann has something solid like an L1 there will be a lot of people who own no Bachmann engines buying it and finding out that Bachmann is every bit as good as the BLI engines.  As far as I can tell, the BLI K4 isn't a bit better than the Bachmann one for an operating layout and the Bachmann engine is a lot more reliable on less than perfect track, too.  A lot of PRR fans, though, stick to BLI and ignore the Bachmann K4 in spite of the fact that they'd be happier with the Bachmann product if they'd just try one.

I also think Bachmann should make a NYC H10b and a NYC L2 series 4-8-2, both with overhung feedwater heaters and visible plumbing.   Neither have ever been available except in brass and from what I hear from other modelers are popular with folks that don't even model the NYC.  The Bachmann Heavy Mountain with a straight top boiler and different plumbing could be the basis for the L2b, or better still, an L2d with a sunken Elesco FWH, and Bachmann also already has a 2-8-2 mechanism that might work for the H10b with some modification to match the heavier running gear.

But, that's just me looking at what I think Bachmann could do based on what they already have that might help defray the expense of getting something into production rather than starting from scratch for something new.  Given the way BLI sells PRR and NYC engines as fast as they build them I think any of the engines I mentioned would be solid sellers.  One thing for sure, the EM1 is selling to a lot of people who aren't B&O fans so whether that's because it's a very popular engine in it's own right or because it's a Bachmann articulated that puts other companies to shame is a question I really don't know how to answer.

[blwfish]

Bowser offered the L1 as a kit for many years.

I like the idea of doing the L1 since to some significant degree the tooling costs are already invested in the form of the K4 boiler, cab and tender.

[Rashputin]

Bowser offered the L1 as a kit for many years.

The last one of those kits I saw on Ebay cost a good bit more than the street price of a Bachmann K4.  Are those kits usually that much these days?  Also, I don't recall those Bowser kits being all that easy to get running right.  At least I remember a lot of people who had trouble getting them to be smooth engines rather than having a waddle and having to redo the siderods and running gear numerous times.  I could be thinking about the Arbor kits, though, so maybe the Bowser stuff is still worthwhile when you find them.

I have a PRR fanatic friend who I've known for years and still touch base with now and then, and he's been nursing his fleet of six Bowser L1 engines for years.  He's down to three of them these days and watching for PFM L1s on Ebay.  They all seem to get away from him although as I recall you can sometimes pick up a brass one for less than five hundred, often a good bit less.  People have a tough time getting brass of that era to run well the same as they did with the kits, though.  I have to keep an eye on my brass Berks or they get out of sorts and I have a pair of Sunset Hudsons that never have run right and defy all my efforts to get them to run right.  I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get BLI Hudsons to replace them.

My son and I fiddled around with moving the Bachmann boiler onto a BLI Heavy Mike and it wouldn't be difficult at all.  The only major thing is that the front of the firebox beneath the running boards is further back on the K4 than on the Mike but you could either take a bit out of the K4 boiler or modify the frame from the Mike, either way it wouldn't be difficult.  I say, "not difficult" from the perspective of being averse to cutting up engines due to my lack of skill at such things.  So, if it looks simple to me it's really simple.  If I had a Bachmann Mike I'd see how tough that would be to use the K4 boiler on although the Mike Bachmann has now is very clearly a light engine and not really a good match with the L1 Mike.

[ryeguyisme]

I also think Bachmann should make a NYC H10b and a NYC L2 series 4-8-2, both with overhung feedwater heaters and visible plumbing.  

Sign me up for an H-10 and a L-2a they are beautiful freight haulers for NYC

Bowser offered the L1 as a kit for many years.


My son and I fiddled around with moving the Bachmann boiler onto a BLI Heavy Mike and it wouldn't be difficult at all.  

I did this to my NJ Custom Brass DRGW M-78 4-8-2 and with some cutting and kitbashing came out really nice, matched it together with the BLI mikado chassis and modified the front of the frame for the extended cylinders and 4 lead wheels


Now bachmann has their Aux. Norfolk and western tender in their tooling why not make a Norfolk and western K3 4-8-2? They were found on 6 different railways like the wheeling lake erie, rio grande, and nickel plate

Project I'm working on, I didn't have a tender for this K3 so I must make one out of bachmanns Aux tender and it's simpler than I originally thought. I'm using  the other one to make a Z1 from a bachmann 2-6-6-2 (the one with the vanderbilt tender) and PSC Z1 parts

[blwfish]

Bowser offered the L1 as a kit for many years.

At least I remember a lot of people who had trouble getting them to be smooth engines rather than having a waddle and having to redo the siderods and running gear numerous times.  I could be thinking about the Arbor kits, though, so maybe the Bowser stuff is still worthwhile when you find them.

I only did one Bowser kit to completion (I have another on the shelf) but it ran pretty well, certainly well for the day. I had an Arbor kit, and it was a fight all the way. The parts didn't fit well, the mechanism was problematic, geez.

I have to say that none of that stuff is like just opening a Bachmann box, putting a little lubrication, programming the DCC and going out with the next train... times have changed, and as long as they make what you want, a whole lot for the better.

[Rashputin]

I did this to my NJ Custom Brass DRGW M-78 4-8-2 and with some cutting and kitbashing came out really nice, matched it together with the BLI mikado chassis and modified the front of the frame for the extended cylinders and 4 lead wheels
Now bachmann has their Aux. Norfolk and western tender in their tooling why not make a Norfolk and western K3 4-8-2? They were found on 6 different railways like the wheeling lake erie, rio grande, and nickel plate

First off, that's really nice work you should be proud of.

Now that you mention it, the K3 would make a really good choice.  I think even the RF&P used them for a while or at least had them on loan for a while.  I had a pair of the Sunset brass ones but a cat got one of them when I had a layout in my garage.  Concrete floors are not good for brass engines and destroying brass engines is not good for cats.  My other K3 is the best running Sunset engine I've had and over the years I've had several different ones that I've traded away.  When I think about the various railroads that seem to always be popular with a wide variety of modelers, the D&RGW and the NYC are way under represented in anything except brass even though most people can recognize their engines and like them.  The SP and ATSF are so unique that people tend to only want to use them if they're modeling those specific roads but D&RGW and NYC seem to be attractive to folks who have no intention of modeling either road.

Athearn just painting D&RGW on the tender of their Challenger was almost an insult given the way Bachmann can make different front ends and such for their engines.  You'd think that the things that made the D&RGW engines unique wouldn't be that difficult to add.  Then there's the L-131 that someone should have the good sense to make since everyone I've ever met who likes steam thinks that beast is beatiful.  With the NYC, on the other hand, all sorts of folks make brass and plastic Hudsons and there are tons of brass L4 series around, just not any of engines that were the real backbone of the road, the L2 series and the H10b.

Hopefully Bachmann will get very good sales with the EM1 and then expand their line with an eye to being THE source for NYC and D&RGW engines the way BLI is aiming at being THE Pennsy source.  We can always dream, can't we?

[blwfish]

I had a pair of the Sunset brass ones but a cat got one of them when I had a layout in my garage.  Concrete floors are not good for brass engines and destroying brass engines is not good for cats. 

Kittyburgers and mittens? 

[Rashputin]

LOL.  I should have thought of the burgers but I had a friend who owned three dachshunds and his wife wanted a cat.  He got her a nice cat for free although the "poor thing" lived in fear of those little weenie critters.

Regards

[ryeguyisme]

First off, that's really nice work you should be proud of.

I am, it's like my favorite little gem I put alot of hours and fustration getting it to work with three other chassis like an athearn mikado chassis and an IHC mountain chassis which was a dumb idea but I figured I'd butcher the BLI mikado I had since the interest in it was dwindling, so I did and I got it together with sound like any other broadway engine, it could even be mistaken for a broadway test model

Now that you mention it, the K3 would make a really good choice.  I think even the RF&P used them for a while or at least had them on loan for a while.  I had a pair of the Sunset brass ones but a cat got one of them when I had a layout in my garage.  Concrete floors are not good for brass engines and destroying brass engines is not good for cats.  My other K3 is the best running Sunset engine I've had and over the years I've had several different ones that I've traded away.  When I think about the various railroads that seem to always be popular with a wide variety of modelers, the D&RGW and the NYC are way under represented in anything except brass even though most people can recognize their engines and like them.  The SP and ATSF are so unique that people tend to only want to use them if they're modeling those specific roads but D&RGW and NYC seem to be attractive to folks who have no intention of modeling either road.

Athearn just painting D&RGW on the tender of their Challenger was almost an insult given the way Bachmann can make different front ends and such for their engines.  You'd think that the things that made the D&RGW engines unique wouldn't be that difficult to add.  Then there's the L-131 that someone should have the good sense to make since everyone I've ever met who likes steam thinks that beast is beatiful.  With the NYC, on the other hand, all sorts of folks make brass and plastic Hudsons and there are tons of brass L4 series around, just not any of engines that were the real backbone of the road, the L2 series and the H10b.

The Alco built L-97's that DRGW used I believe remained stock, I've seen a dated picture and they are just like the union pacific challengers, nonetheless the DRGW crews hated them, and along came the L-105's

I'm surprised bachmann went with another 2 C&O engines the 2-8-4(which IMO is outdone in so many ways I can't stand to look at them without a sort of gag) and the other 2-6-6-2's which is nice for kitbash fodder

Hopefully Bachmann will get very good sales with the EM1 and then expand their line with an eye to being THE source for NYC and D&RGW engines the way BLI is aiming at being THE Pennsy source.  We can always dream, can't we?

I don't mean to burst any pennsy fans bubble  but I gag at the keystone and the belpaires. We need more western engines, and Blackstone was considering standard gauged engines like the M-75 *holds breath* 

[2-8-8-4]

ryeguyisme--

Lets get some facts correct:

First:  DRGW received the L-105 Challengers prior to the L-97 Union Pacific Challengers; the L-105's did not come along "after" the L-97 as seems to be implied by your post.  Some have claimed the Rio Grande modified the smokestacks on them but other than that they shipped them off to Clinchfield in more or less "stock" UP configuration.

Second: It was the middle of a war, and the War Production Board tacked the L-97 Challenger onto a Union Pacific order that was in the midst of production--thus saving critical setup time on the factory floor that would have been wasted in setting up to do a small production run of additional L-105's.

Third: There was nothing at all wrong with the UP Challengers, except they weren't the Rio Grande's own design, and they had somewhat less starting tractive effort--but the reason they didn't like them was because they were UP engines, pure and simple.

Also--it is well documented via a telegram sent from the Rio Grande to the DM&IR that the DM&IR Yellowstones, which Rio Grande leased during some winters, were the finest steam locomotives that ever ran on the Rio Grande, in the railroad's opinion.

Donelson and ryeguyisme and others who think brass is going to get cheaper--

You are absolutely dreaming if you think brass prices are going to collapse further than they already have.  I would love to smoke what you are smoking--because it's insanely good stuff.  Try finding the high quality late models (like for example the Rutland or New Haven engines pictured in the latest brass book) used--it's darn near impossible in some roadnames--they're just not out there to be had--or not at a reasonable price.

Not that many years ago I bought a mint Custom Brass 2-6-6-2 (Z-1a/L-76) for only $600 that ran great--but you will never be able to do that again as most articulateds, indeed most brass models of good quality, have appreciated quite nicely to significantly higher levels.

Given the few rare exceptions when someone is selling something they clearly do not know or appreciate, the only brass engines available cheap are those with known quality control issues that affect a portion of the model run, known mechanism problems, or older runs done in large quantities that need some work to get them up to today's running standards, etc.  On some of these prices have been flat for 15 years--but they aren't going any lower.

There are lots of well-detailed basket cases to be had and re-built, but I personally wouldn't touch them as I don't possess the modeling/kitbashing skills displayed above, and am unable to pay the fees charged by real craftsmen to fix 'em up to acceptable standards.

Regarding the BLI and MTH buyers trying Bachmann--we already did and are already here.  I love my one EM-1 and the Alco 2-6-0's.

John

[2-8-8-4]

I for one would love to see the Rio Grande 4-8-2 (any class of them) available in HO plastic or hybrid.  Living in the East I have hunted for the brass ones in the past, but have never seen some classes of them, and the comments I've read online about the work required to make them run right (other than the PFM Crown, which is just a bit noisy with the open frame motor) have scared me away from ever trying to buy one.

Also perhaps I'd love the B&O Q-4d mikado, or the B&O 2-10-2.  Or a nice 4-8-2 or 4-6-2 from one of the New England railroads, but without the smoke deflectors.

In my opinion, there are two other articulateds in the running, along with the B&O EM-1, for the title of "most beautiful" articulated ever built. They are the Western Pacific 4-6-6-4, which toiled in the Nevada desert, was rarely photographed, and is not as well remembered, and the other is the Seaboard Air Line/B&O 2-6-6-4.  Both were neat, and I'd kill to see either of them in plastic (especially since some brass versions of the WP Challenger are notorious for not being accurate--some were pretty generic D&H/WP/WM models with many common features that make none of them correct).

Finally, I would like to see another road number (besides 7627) of the 1945 order of B&O EM-1's.  The 1945 order, with the smaller cover over the front sand lines, is to me the best looking one.

Diesels--all the ones I care about have been done in plastic already, and at age 43, I'm actually purging diesels from the layout in favor of steam.  Only two diesels remain, an Atlas S-2 and a Bowser Alco Demo C-628.

John

[ryeguyisme]

John, you are correct on the L-97's


however stating that brass steam isn't going to depreciate in value whether new or old, basket case or mint in the coming years and I'm not talking 2 years in the future, I'm talking 20 years when I'm finally middle aged brass prices are going to be significantly less. Having said that I still shell out my meager earnings to buy a piece or 2, and I'm already at a dozen pieces roughly and I've bought and sold a few pieces and honestly the brass market is really good for those who want the engine, not the collective value. If you're holding out on an engine as an investment, I'd be very careful how long you hold on to it. And we weren't speaking on terms of the late stuff either, but even that stuff is having a tough time selling unless its really rare like a DRGW L-62

Most of the engines I want were made up until the late 70's early 80's at the latest, so I can't really say I really have a need for any of the later models other than that L-62 

I bought a key M-75 4-8-2 at $250 in rough shape, but it pulled the paint off the wall, and will continue to do so until I have to replate the drivers, if I'm lucky there's someone around that will do it in the future. I have another one on the way, and I'm anticipating how great that one runs, I don't put a price on my engines. My father asked how much I'd sell my ex-DMIR 2-10-4 kitbash and i couldn't. I put $600 into that whole project and that beasty is mine til the grave.

A fellow named Tom White who own the Yuba River Sub Railroad(DRGW) has I think 3 or 4 yellowstones and lettered them for the DRGW. I'm not too much of a fan of them simply due to the way they remind me too much of the big boys, I'd much prefer a L-131


Most basket cases I own I simply swap out the mechanisms with something similar but simple, and if I need to fix the mechanism again I'd just rebuy the engine it came off of and swap it out, can't do that in normal brass



The custom brass M-78 is a nightmare if you want them to work right, mostly scared me away from custom brass although I would buy another one

My Key Imports M-75 is a swiss watch even in the condition it came in:
Before:
During:
After:
the one in the middle... I'm not a fan of the Elesco on the M-75


and finally my M-69 project Ex-N&W K3 4-8-2(no tender and the can motor pooped the bed) that you see earlier in the thread.

Plastic DRGW mountains, yes please sign me up!!!! I'll go bankrupt from preorders haha

[2-8-8-4]

Yes, yes--I don't like Elesco feedwater heaters.

Give me Rio Grande, speed lettering, blue-green boiler (few alive know the real color for sure--at least the green on SP engines), with Worthington fwh.

A nicely painted M-78 was on the cover of RMC years ago.  It's a stunning model, and the image of that cover is burned into my brain--but I've never seen one, and have heard horror stories that they need work.

Still--the massive size of the Rio Grande mountains would make for a very impressive plastic version--and I've often dreamed it would come to pass.

However, the legions of B&O fans are also craving a proper 2-10-2, 2-8-2, or just about anything at all actually correct for B&O.

Santa Fe--most of the popular big steam has already been done in plastic, and I doubt a super 2900 model is yet to come because they're just so darn big--not everyone can run one.

The Alco 2-6-0 has opened my eyes toward the possibilities of smaller steam engines.  The mainline appears to have a much longer run when I put on a little 2-6-0 with a few cars and a caboose--and my son loves them--especially with the economically priced sound package.

I could appreciate a USRA 4-6-2, as well.

John

P.S.  Don't sweat the brass prices falling.  You run the stuff, enjoy it, and the nicely done, nicely upgraded stuff like you have will always be worth more.  The prices fall on PFM Crowns when new models of the same thing come out that blow the old version away, and the segment of the hobby that buys it simply because it is a Crown or because it says Tenshodo on the box is dying off.  My plastic EM-1 will not appreciate because there are plenty of them--even though it's a terrific engine--but the brass models generally make money for their owners if you buy smart in the first place.  Just don't overpay for them.  One loses money in brass by excessive trading, or by being impatient and wanting to sell it fast--as I have done.  If you are patient, hold the models for a few years (especially after any initial dip shortly after some are released) the price almost always goes up.  Even the marginal ones go for slightly more than the price 15 years ago.

[ryeguyisme]

John here's some pictures for you I just shot:


My Custom brass M-78  over a BLI USRA heavy 2-8-2 chassis with sound


M-75 as she is today



my Ex-DMIR 2-10-4 kinda warped into a DRGW looking engine, note the tender is from a PFM L-131 

[2-8-8-4]

Interesting, very creative with the 2-10-4.  How nice to have that space on which to run the big mamma jamma's too!

I really really like the 3350 and 1553 up above.  The finished versions look fantastic.

My problem is I can't bring myself to take an articulated I love from road A and reletter it for road B.  Sometimes knowing the history makes it less fun.  

Then again, with the EM-1, at the present point in time, I don't even know what roadname, other than B&O, I would want to put on it.  A big harvest yellow "MEC" for Maine Central would be somewhat twisted of me to apply...

John