Sad News After 52 years

[ebtbob]

Good Evening all,

       Sad news......after 52 years of tourist operations,  the East Broad Top Railroad will not be running any trains this year.   Nothing has been said about this meaning never again,  only this year of 2012.   Hopefully,  anyone with more info may tack onto what I have said here.   Very sad.

[Len]

The official announcement can be found here: http://www.ebtrr.com/

Apparently there are issues with either renewing the lease, or buying the line outright.

Len

[Jerrys HO]

Bob,

Sorry to hear this as I know how fond you were of the EBT. Hope everything works out for them in the next coming year.

Jerry

[Desertdweller]

That is too bad.

Maybe the problem can be resolved by the Coal Company finding another operator, or by taking over the railroad operations themselves.  This is not a unique situation among tourists railroads, and can usually be resolved if the owners are truly interested in keeping the line open.

For now, the most important thing is to preserve the property, power, and rolling stock so operations can be restarted without requiring a major investment or rebuilding.

From the wording of the announcement in the link, the owners are keenly aware of the historical importance of the railroad and its public relations value  I think this little railroad is a national treasure.

Les

[2-8-8-4]

This is only hearsay, however, from what I have heard through the years, living in Central PA, it always seemed to me the owners had a somewhat inflated value in mind of what the railroad and related facilities were worth in cold hard cash.  I have heard the federal government did once make a reasonable offer to buy the railroad and turn it into a national park--they were allegedly turned down--and PA got Steamtown instead, built essentially from the ground up, as not much was left in Scranton from that era.  Building Steamtown from the ground up has always seemed somewhat ludicrous to many of us living in PA...though we do enjoy it...at least some of us.

As I read the announcement, my takeaway is that no purchase offer acceptable to the owners was made.

Perhaps another team will succeed in purchasing and preserving the line?

[ebtbob]

2-8-8-4,

      Scroll up to the first response to my post and click on the link provided.   After reading it,  if you can read between the lines,  then good for you because the news for 2012 is quite direct.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Sad news, indeed. What a shame. 

[ebtnut]

A visit to Orbisonia will still be worthwile this year, even without the steam train.  There will be tours offered of the yard complex, and the RTY trolleys will still be operating.  FEBT continues is restoration program on several fronts.  One notable new accomplishment is the stabilization of the blacksmith shop, which has been leaning badly for a number of years. 

[2-8-8-4]

I did read the link, and it does clearly say that after lots of discussions no arrangement could be made.  I have to agree with Len.

Since the EBT Preservation Association was evidently leasing the railroad with an option to buy, it seems pretty crystal clear to me that whatever offer(s) might have been made to either A. buy the railroad outright or B. continue leasing/operating the line for this year was not acceptable to the owners.

[rogertra]

Is the East Broad Top operated mainly by volunteers, like most of the hundred or so "heritage" railways in the UK or is it run entirely by paid staff?

UK "heritage" railway raise literally millions of pounds/dollars for major projects, why can't the U.S. of A with its millions more in population and being supposedly the richest country on earth, do the same thing?

The East Broad Top is a treasure and should be treated as such.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Is the East Broad Top operated mainly by volunteers, like most of the hundred or so "heritage" railways in the UK or is it run entirely by paid staff?

UK "heritage" railway raise literally millions of pounds/dollars for major projects, why can't the U.S. of A with its millions more in population and being supposedly the richest country on earth, do the same thing?

The East Broad Top is a treasure and should be treated as such.

Are those millions of pounds in private donations or taxes? I'm presuming you mean private monies, but I want to be clear.

We Yanks in general don't have as great an appreciation for history as you Brits. Perhaps we also don't have as great a sense of public spirit. There are so many more of us than there are of you Brits that we always expect someone else to do it. History is treated as a branch of the entertainment industry here, too; try convincing someone who has no interest in trains to contribute--or someone who lives thousands of miles away in a state that won't raise taxes even for decent schools for their own children to contribute to a dinky little narrow-gauge steam railroad here in Pennsylvania.

I'm sure there are other reasons, too, but that should give you some idea to get started.

[Desertdweller]

It is a national treasure.  It is also a mining company's private property.

It appears to me that the company is aware of the historical significance and public appeal of the EBT.  While the company owes nothing to the public, it makes sense from a PR and community support standpoint for this railroad to remain in operation.  No doubt there are individuals and business who's livelihood is linked to the operation of the railroad, even as a tourist attraction.  It looks like it would be in everyone's interest to keep this thing going.

If I understand the situation correctly, the mining company owns the railroad in its entirety.  The railroad was operated by a separate group contracted by the mining company to do so.  For whatever reason, that arrangement is no longer agreeable to the owner.  It also looks like the operator made an offer to buy the railroad that was unsatisfactory to the owner.

If that is the case, the owner can either renegotiate the contract with the operator, or look for another operator.  Or, he can operate the property himself with his own employees.

Or, he can attempt to sell the property to another buyer who can meet the asking price.  None of these options are new in the tourist train industry.

The final option would be to simply abandon the railroad and concentrate on mining.
The rolling stock and locomotives, parts supply, shop equipment, etc. could be sold to another narrow-gauge operation.  Or, the equipment could be donated to a non-profit museum and a tax deduction taken.  In no case can I see the equipment cut up for scrap.

Les

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Or, he can attempt to sell the property to another buyer who can meet the asking price.  None of these options are new in the tourist train industry.

I wonder whether the private individuals who own the Durango & Silverton and two (?) other tourist railroads would be interested?

Tell you what, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's what ends up happening.

[ebtnut]

Let's clear a few things up here.  The EBT is owned by the Kovalchick family.  It was acquired by Nick in 1956 along with all of the mining properties when the whole operation was shut down by Rockhill Coal Co.  Nick reopened a short stretch of the line in 1960 at the request of the town of Orbisonia which was celebrating its bicentennial.  Nick died in the 1970's and son Joe took over and continued running the tourist operation, which he did until executing the lease deal with the EBTPA three years ago.  In those 50 plus years a lot of the assests of the old mining company were sold off, such as most all the former company houses in Robertsdale and Woodvale.  The company still owns most of the land, and has leased some for strip mining.  There is paid staff (some are seasonal) to operate the tourist service.  The operations are also supported to some extent by volunteers from the trolley museum and FEBT.  FEBT is embarked on a number of preservation projects, including the machine shop building, the blacksmith shop, restoration of a hopper car and (in progress) one of the combine cars, along with the former Robertsdale Post Office and EBT depot.  Other volunteers under the auspices of the Broad Top Coal Miner's Museum have been clearing right-of-way between Robertsdale and Woodvale with a possible view to running some kind of trips on that end of the line. 

[phillyreading]

Sorry to hear that East Broad Top may not run this year. Am I correct in saying that EBT is a narrow gauge railroad (track less then 4 ft. 8.5 in. apart)?
I have always wanted to get up to EBT area. Let's hope that EBT opens again and runs trains.

Maybe I can make it to Jim Thorpe PA sometime in the next two years, and see the regional railroad that operates over there, the Reading & Northern RR.

Lee F.