sound for the k27

[ironlake]

I would like to add sound as I am used to the Lionel legacy sound so quality of sound is paramount.  I am not interested in dcc just common dc with control to activate sound.  I was on the qsi site and like the unit you add to the standard power pack but was not impressed with the quality of the sound that was available on the samples.  Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance for any help.  Dave.

[armorsmith]

Ironlake,

There are several god sound cards on the market.  To the best of my knowledge, Phoenix has the only sound card that the sound bites used were recorded from either the 463 or the 464 (the only two remaining K27s). As would be expected the higher the sound quality the higher the price.  That being said, I have the 464 with Phoenix sound. Fantastic!  Phoenix is also a first class company to deal with.  The Phoenix PB11  http://www.phoenixsound.com/products/pb11.html  is the card I have.  Poke around in the Phoenix web site, there is a sounds page where you can hear the actual sounds of the card.  If you choose the Phoenix, remember to have it programmed either by Phoenix or the Reseller before you get it.  The software to load it isn't cheap.

I do not have any personal experience with any of the other cards, but for my money, for the K27 this card is the best.

Bob C.

[JerryB]

Be aware that listening to sound samples on the internet is not necessarily indicative of how the product will sound in your locomotive. Several things, including bandwidth used for the sampling, bandwidth used in getting the sound clip to your computer, and the amplifier and speakers in your computer will definitely affect how any clip sounds.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

[ironlake]

How did you set up the chuff.  did you use the optical circuit or else.  which board did you get the best one or the one for dc on track operation only.  thanks

[armorsmith]

JerryB,

Combine all those things you list with the installation of the speaker in the loco/tender, quality of speaker, etc.  The point I was trying to make is that there is a sample of the sound available.  Personally, mine had very little difference indoors.  Outdoors was a totally different kettle of fish.


Ironlake,

I purchased the PB9 board originally, but had some issues, which Phoenix resolved very satisfactorily.  This occurred recently and I have not installed the new PB11 board yet.  My original installation was done by RLD Hobbies, and uses two magnets on the tender axle with a reed switch to activate.  I am currently looking at a circuit to utilize the optical sensors instead.  Another member of another board has installed the circuit in his K27 and reports good results.  Don't hold your breath for me to complete mine, life and my 12 grandchildren keep me plenty busy, so progress is usually slow, plus I have about 6 other projects on the burners now as well. 

Here is a link to the article on the circuit for using the optical sensors for chuff control.

http://www.ovgrs.org/P8SoundK27

Good luck.

Bob C.

[tac]

If you want to hear what it sounds like outside - here is a clip of my AccuCraft K27 [with the sound turned OFF] leading a Bachmann K27 with the Phoenix sound turned ON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF8viKjxjYE

I've been to Colorado and heard the real thing, and THIS boy can't tell the difference. 

The Phoenix version was not around when i bought my Sierra SoundTraXX version, and if it had been, there would have been absolutely no doubt about where MY $$$$ would have gone.

Turn it up LOUD.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
ovgrs.org

[Chris9017]

Phoenix Sound Systems Inc has been around for years, they have a huge library full of steam sounds for all sorts of engines.

The C-16 sound card, K-27, K-28, and K-36 would all sound perfect for a Spectrum K-27 it just depends on what sound of chuff you like, and what kind of whistle you like.  High pitched chuff and 5-chime Rio Grande Whistle, C-16, mid tone chuff and single note note Whistle, K-27, mid tone chuff and 3-chime whistle, K-28, and lower pitched chuff with slightly lower toned 5-chime whistle, the K-36.  It's a matter of opinion and taste, but they are all great sound chips.

The PB-11 sound board fits both DC and DCC so you don't have to have it be DCC, it'll work with just regular DC just fine.   Enjoy.

[ironlake]

QSI has a new plug in card that has auto chuff and is ready to use once it is in the engine.  anyone try this.

[Kevin Strong]

Wel, the "new" QSI plug-in board isn't on the market yet. (That's the "Titan" board). How it's "auto-chuff" works--like the board itself--remains to be seen. The older "Magnum" board can be found here and there 2nd hand. I've used it's "auto-chuff" on two K-27s with decidedly different results on each one. On the first installation, I was able to set the value for the control that times the chuff to where it was accurately quartered pretty much throughout the entire speed range. I was duly impressed with that installation. I did a second K-27 with the same settings, and I couldn't get near the consistency through the speed range. Either it was good at the slow end and off up top, or vice versa.

In theory, you're supposed to be able to use two parallel controls (CV 56.12 and 56.13) to better coordinate that, but I've yet to find anyone who can give me a clear-cut explanation as to how they interact. I've been unsuccessful in setting it to my satisfaction. Note that I'm also a purist when it comes to chuff timing, and can almost always tell when something's not quartered properly to the drivers--especially at the slow speeds which narrow gauge locos run. As such, I'll rely on a timed trigger unless there's absolutely no other way to do business.

Later,

K

[ironlake]

I bet the chuff will be like the old qsi o gauge 3 rail system with reverse emf and it worked very well and if you were a perfectionist you could mess with the settings until you got it right.  The chuff increase was linear all the way up in speed.  Depending on how fast you let the engine get going before you pressed set you coould get all the way from 1 chuff per rev to 4 or more,

[Kevin Strong]

It does use BEMF, and it is programmable. It's the programming that's the quirky part. Two identical locos, two identical sets of CV values, two different results. It's worth it to google the simple transistor circuit needed to interface the K's optical chuffs to the QSI board.

Later,

K

[Heinz D]

Hi Dave
I'm modellrailroader like you and I was searching 20 years for the really true sound. Ok before 5 years I got a Zimo device in my hands and I was beginnig to do my own sounds. www.Zimo.at was remarking the quality of my Climax sound with the ideling gears and asking me to give my sounds for another modellrailroaders too. Since this time I'm sound desinger for Zimo. I've done sounds for the most Bachmann large scale engine - all together 38 US sounds. One of them is the K-27. I recorded at the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic location Cisco tank for the chuff.
The Zimo device is a dcc component like phoenix too, which is made for best results with dc mode. The full power of 10 Watt is working with 3,5 Volt on the tracks.
A well known dealer in USA www.train-li-usa.com tells me 4/5 of my sounds are working on dc layouts with great sucession of the customers. The device is now to connect by wires, but Zimo works on a fitting device for the Bachmann plug-and-play socket, called MX 697.

I hope this informations will help you for your decissions.
sincerly
Heinz

[ironlake]

I zimo site is all in german and I do not read it so at this point no use to me.  thanks anyway.

[Heinz D]

Hi Dave

in the left topcorner of the Zimo site you'll find the choice between German and English. John Russel translate the whole site and newsletters in his motherlanguage English.

I hope this will help you to unterstand the informations. On the sound data base you'll see all the sound projects.  

The Zimo device is in principe a dcc decoder like the Phoenix too, but by the Zimo device the canmotor will be connected too. This way will give you a smooth running because the motor takes not notice of the 60 Hz riple of your bridge rectifier. Your dealer can set a limit of the top speed for double header use with his dcc system in programming mode.  

I tested this dc operation mode once with a Forney and to my own surprise the added fan blown smoker was operating powered by the Zimo device with a blow out of a smoke clound by every chuff.

If you add a large capacitor to the device you get spare power, which helps you by a bad connection to the rails for some inches to arrive on good connectivity.

sincerly
Heinz

[tac]

Mornin', Heinz - slight thread drift, and an apology too.

I'd be VERY interested to hear your Climax sound - but I live in UK most of the time.

PM me if you care to.

Best

tac
OVGRS