2-10-4

[r.cprmier]

Gene; 
Typo.   Size 19 ring finger in the keyboard...
A 4-8-2 is a Mowhawk...
Rich

[SteamGene]

Only on the Water Level Route.  Everybody else used the C&O name - Mountain, named for the Blue Ridge and Alleghany Mountains the originals traveled between Charlottesville, Va and Hinton, WV.
Gene

[r.cprmier]

Yeah, Gene; on the water level route.  There were some really neat looking Mowhawks plying their trade there, and some great photos of both 'hawks and Hudsons on their respective runs.  Some were equipped with smoke deflectors, mostly for use on passenger service.

HOWEVER...Us DamnYankees did indeed steal the name "Mountain" didn't us now?  We had some really neat engines up here, on the B&M, Maine Central, and yep-the good ol' NYNH&H!  The "R" series engines could be found almost anywhere on the New Haven system, doing a variety of chores.  Had one come tearing through Quincy station once when I was about five-didn't know about Whyte;s system, but I knew it was BIG!!  I found out later on that they ran them down to Middleboro sometimes.

Did you check out the Central Vermont "Texas's" yet? THey were beautiful!!  Even had an all-weather cab; just like its Canadian brerthern-and sistern too.

Rich

[Paul M.]

bump

[TexasChief]

 ???This person wants big steam, this person wants small steam. This thread, like so many like it on other forums, is becoming political like the Catholics and protestants in Ireland, like the Jews and Islamics in the middle east. People, this is America, why can't we have both at the same time and learn to live with it? I, for one, would dearly love to see anew ATSF 2-10-4 come out. But I won't begrudge the little engine lovers thier desires either.

Dick
Texas Chief

[Paul M.]

???This person wants big steam, this person wants small steam. This thread, like so many like it on other forums, is becoming political like the Catholics and protestants in Ireland, like the Jews and Islamics in the middle east. People, this is America, why can't we have both at the same time and learn to live with it? I, for one, would dearly love to see anew ATSF 2-10-4 come out. But I won't begrudge the little engine lovers thier desires either.

Dick
Texas Chief

Broadway Limited makes a Santa Fe 2-10-4. You're covered.

[Atlantic Central]

Hey Chief,

You missed the point intirely. Nobody is against big steam. BUT! A quick review of the current and recent offerings of the major HO manufacturers of steam include a long list of large, modern steam locos with dizzying numbers of wheels. Yet the most prolific wheel arangements go unrepresented.

And many of the same ones from several manufacturers?

And, there are more large steamers in the pipeline, just look at the new announcements from Bachmann and the future plans of BLI/PCM and Athearn.

Maybe not the "one" you are looking for, but I would take ANY reasonable average Pacific as long as it was not a PRR K4.

I am still convinced that somewhere, on warehouse and hobbyshop shelves, there are allready enough Big Boys for every person in the hobby to have all 25 copies. Yet there are more of them on the way too. Why?

And, I have big curves (36" minimum) and still don't want any 2-10-anythings on my layout.

If just a few more different 4-8-4 prototypes get made, the entire history of that wheel arangement will be documented in HO scale. But the most popular wheel arangements in history remain poorly represented.

2-8-0
4-6-2
2-8-2
4-6-0
4-4-2

Make me a list of spectrum/broadway/genesis/proto quality models of these wheel arangements that I can actually buy today? It would be a short list.

I have lots of big steam:

3   bachmann 2-6-6-2
2   PCM reading 4-8-4
2   proto 2-8-8-2
5   bachmann 4-8-2
1   BLI n&w 2-6-6-4

etc,etc, and they are all great.

But the hobby needs those locos I and others have taked about, long before it needs another obscure, one railroad, there was only 25 of these in the world, monster locos.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Here, here. 
I also have a lot of big steam. 
2 2-10-4
3 2-10-2
4 2-6-6-2
2 2-6-6-6
8 4-8-2 (I think)
4 2-8-4

But the common engines - 2-8-0, 2-8-2, 4-6-0, 4-4-2 are engines that the average modeler needs. 
Gene

[ryeguyisme]

Maybe not the "one" you are looking for, but I would take ANY reasonable average Pacific as long as it was not a PRR K4.

ahaha I'd take anything that wasn't PRR

[r.cprmier]

Sheldon;
With respect to the inundation of the hobby with a plathora of "big steam", I think there is one thing that went unsaid:  the aspect of the "new and improved" versions.  
If you look at most, if not all, of the presentations that appear in duplicity, there is something new, "better: etc, than the "older stuff".  This is neither to castigate the manufacturers, or the hobbyists; just to mention a point.  
As an example, in the fifties, Tenshodo had marketed a 4-6-6-4 Challenger, all nice in its finger-jointed varnished oak case.  This was a honey of an engine-then!
Last I saw, there were some really nice improved renditions of same engine.  Same with the Rivarossi 2-6-6-6; I own one of the first production numbers of that engine.  I think the engine is a supberb model in every way; but then there is a newer edition of the same engine by Rivarossi.  Would I buy another? probably not; but guaranteed someone else will!  There is going to be a Pacific marketed by BLI, soon.  These engines, with a little work, can be made to look like a particular prototype of many roads.  Didn't Rivarossi market a pacific about ten or so years ago?  And, wasn't it a beauty?  Hows about Athearn?  Would I buy one, faced with a couple of BLIs I have reserved?  Nope.  I have two Athearn Pacifics and Mikes; but had  I known about the BLI Mikes, I would have nixed the Athearns in a heartbeat; instead, I am like many others, having bought "duplicity"-only the BLIs are a superior model for many reasons.  Underlying cause?  Human nature.

That tenshodo challenger?  A dog by comparison!  No DCC-ready, no RP-25 standards, no NMRA standards, etc.  This, to me, is part of the situation; the other, of course, is the application of the marketing strategies with some of the abovementioned as components.  Do I fault the manufacturer?  Nope.  They have investors on their back, too.  

Just for the record, I do hope that BLI, Rivarossi, Proto 2000 is taking notice and will perhaps entertain the idea of smaller steam.  That would be nice.

RIch

[SteamGene]

Rich,
You have a very good argument for everything except one aspect - repitition of the same models - yes, they improve, but lord!  How many 4-6-6-4s do we need?  Yet that road had how many Harriman "soldiers of the working day"?  And how many models of them do we have?
Everybody needs to consider the size of the average layout - 4x8.  What is the maximum curve you can use on that size board - 22" - just barely.   I haven't tested my 2-10-x on my 30" minimum curves yet.  I know they'd do better on wider curves, but that would have meant less mainline run. 
Model railroading is an essay in compromising.  We all need to understand that.
Gene

[Atlantic Central]

Rich,

I agree with you and get your point when comparing a 1970's or 1980's Rivarossi anything or old brass to the current offerings.

That is not what I refer to. How many K4's have been offered in the last 5 years? By how many manufacturer's. How many Big Boy's are currently on the market? The quality/feature level between a BLI K4 and a MTH K4 is a zero sum game from where I sit.

And now BLI/PCM and Athearn will have a similar p***ing contest with the Big Boy.

Not to mention: N&W "J", FEF Northerns, and even though they are not steam PRR GG1's.

Cab forwards look like they might be next on the list. How many different "state of the art" examples do we need?

On the topic of the BLI/PCM 2-8-2's both light and heavy, they are nice models, but their limited offering of undecorated versions, no steath heavies, no undec stealth lights, etc, shows a lack of interest in the "modeler" half of the market. But that is the half that will still be buying this stuff when the "collector" crowd gets bored or their stock portfolio takes a hit.

You say BLI/PCM is bring out Pacifics, and so do they, but their little exercise in "preorder build meters" on their web site suggests money may be an issue and these models may be a long way off if they show up at all.

And, why should I preorder them when the prices are so all over the map. I don't pay more than I have to for ANYTHING!

You say marketing strategy? I don't own a Big Boy or a K4 or a Challenger or a GG1. Their strategy is not working to get any of my money into their pockets.

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Rich,

One more thought, I doubt there is any difference between an orginal Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 and the current one. Just a realization that more people want one and a factory with tooling already in place.

Sheldon

[TexasChief]

Paul, BLI's 2-10-4 is small potatoes compared to the final 2-10-4's. In reallity, it was a 2-10-2 with an experimental 4 wheeled truck on the rear. Doesn't qualify. Thanks anyway.

Dick
Texas Chief

[r.cprmier]

Sheldon and Gene;
My point is only that (the) manufacturers will "create" a market by the "new and improved" versions; just as Nixon's press mafia did for him in 1972...and the people who want them will flock to their respective outlets with their full purses; the strings dangling loosley in the air...Asw long as these guys smell a profit, the big engines will continue to gererously roll off the assembly tables,  out of the hands of those cute little Chinese girls and onto the advertising pages and circulars.

The point remains that neither you or I need dump our hard-earned dinero into those manufacturers' trembling paws; but can certainly abstain until our discretioary ideals come rolling down the line.  My thoughts are with yours:  Some day (and hopefully soon), some wag from some product-savvy company, just hungry enough to do it, will tap into that "small engine" market, and, hopefully, make a killing for themselves in the production of-not one, but a series of-small engines, such as a Mogul, Ten-Wheeler, etc, all finely detailed as the "biggies" now in market glut, as well as DCC equipped, maybe even sound equipped, that indigenous to their prototype(s).
  I am not concerned with the fickle and superficial wants of some person just in this for ha ha's, or a passage from childhood to girl-chasing adolescence, but those wants and desires of  people like you and I,  who have some sense of focus and prototypical agenda, and realize that these little gems would indeed hit the spot on our respective rosters.  All things considered, they will richly deserve the profit they will ultimately realize.

My dog need to be fed; I must go.

Rich