all good things come to an end.

[Desertdweller]

I didn't even know about the Atlas forum until I read this thread.  I post on RAILROAD.NET  under "Desertdweller" (plus a few non-railroad related forums).  I think it is a good idea to sign one's own name, at least a first name, at the end of a post.  As far as I am concerned, if a person has an opinion they are willing to share on the Internet, they should not be afraid to put their name to it.  Some forums do have a policy of allowing posting under assumed names only.

From what I have seen on this forum, it seems to be pretty tolerant of the mention of other makers' products.
For example, I have posted (and continue to) a few posts on how to improve the performance of various makers' products.  For tweaks specific to a particular maker's product, it has to be named if the post is to make any sense.  I have never run into a problem here doing that.  Those of us who have been in the hobby for ten years or more have seen great improvements in the quality of all surviving brands of equipment.  This shows the hobby is still evolving in the direction of better products across the board.

The moderators of this board realize that very few model railroaders are going to have railroads consisting of only one manufacturers products.  The wide range of attractive, quality products available encourage all model railroaders to try different makers' offerings.  I think that is a good thing for both model railroaders and manufacturers.  It is definitely an improve over the "old days" when all manufacturers offered only locomotives based on the same handful of prototypes.

I have been an N-scale modeler since 1978.  In my own experience, I have seen tremendous improvement in the quality of Bachmann products.  Bachmann has shown a real effort to improve and maintain the quality of their products.  They obviously are listening to their customers.  I suspect the improved redesign of their E-Z Track switches are a direct result of problems and fixes discussed in this forum.  I use 28 of these switches on my home layout.  The great majority of them worked fine right out of the box.  The rest do now, too, as a result of my own experimentation and the incorporation of suggestions I read on this forum.  I do not have any of the redesigned switches, but I can see the changes in the new ones are an implementation of the ideas expressed here.

Bachmann has a remarkably responsive customer service department, possibly the best in the business.  Again, I strongly suspect there is feedback between this forum and that department.

This is Bachmann's Forum, and we should always keep that in mind.  It isn't for trashing any manufacturer's product.  If there is a problem with anybody's product, including Bachmann's, we can discuss it here and explore work-arounds and make suggestions for corrections.  This is constructive criticism and not bashing.
If we can all keep our trains running well, that is a good situation for Bachmann as well as everyone else.

Les

[RAM]

I think Bachmann lets it go if you discuss other manufacturer's products that Bachmann does make.  I think it is wrong to compare products or to run down other manufacturer's products.  A lot of this was done on the Atlas forum.

[Ken G Price]

I started back into N-scale in 2007.
I found out there were model train forums from one of the magazines that had something about them.
I then thought, Ken, you should do a  search for any more.
So, I looked for N scale forums.
Lo and behold Bachmann and Atlas were some that showed up.
Truth is I spend more time on some others the this one, but I always check it out through out the day.
I'm here am I not?

I have lots of Bachmann rolling stock second only to Atlas. And two Bachmann GP40s.
Bachmann makes a lot of flatcars with loads that I needed.

So a big hardy thanks to Bachmann for the forum and N-Scale.

[the Bach-man]

Dear All,
After twenty five years of coaching, one of many things I've learned is that as soon as a hard-and fast rule is instituted it will come back to bite you.
Accordingly, I try to moderate each thread and post on a case by case basis.
In general, these are my guidelines:
DO be polite.
DO be positive.
DO refrain from foul language and/ or personal attacks.
DO feel free to post suggestions or requests.
DO be sure of information when helping others.
DON'T say, for instance, ABC Trains are better than Bachmann.
DON'T say ABC Trains are no good (ABC can't respond).
DON'T post for sale ads.
DON'T use our site to link to ABC Trains' new announcements.
If you need help lubricating ABC Train's new 0-5-0, and they don't have a forum, by all means ask here. Just keep the guidelines in mind.
Our site is obviously meant to promote our products, but we also want to promote model railroading in general, and your enjoyment of The World's Greatest Hobby.
One more DO:
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[jward]

see that's why i spend my time here instead of elsewhere. civilized discussion of trains sponsored by a company in the hobby for the long haul. that list of do's is reasonable, without being restrictive.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

see that's why i spend my time here instead of elsewhere. civilized discussion of trains sponsored by a company in the hobby for the long haul. that list of do's is reasonable, without being restrictive.

Agreed!

And it did my heart good to read this comment in particular:

Our site is obviously meant to promote our products, but we also want to promote model railroading in general, and your enjoyment of The World's Greatest Hobby.

JBJ

[CNE Runner]

Very sensible approach Bach Man...and appreciated. Jward hit on the reason why this is one of my favorite forums: the helpful, friendly attitude of the participants. A number of years ago, I posted a question (or it may have been a suggestion) on a very popular model railroad magazine's forum - only to garner sarcastic, and condescending, replies. I have never posted anything on that forum again...and rarely visit it as well.

I check the Bachmann forum, and the Free Rails forum, at least once a day and only wish we all lived close enough to meet in person.

Cheers,
Ray

[2-8-8-4]

The Atlas HO forum was once a useful forum, but has outlived its usefulness.

Don't bother to give them actual cost estimates from an actual manufacturer to build a new diesel from the ground up in the U.S.  All they do is take issue with the assumptions and the math for 10 pages while basically flaming the original poster, then they call the original poster a manufacturer's "paid shill" and/or a troll.

The high posting, highly vocal, highly critical members of the Atlas HO forum had no clue of just how much they don't know, and were very unwilling to accept any information that deviated from their personal beliefs.  

Good riddance to them!

They did more to hurt the hobby than they ever did to help it.  They demanded much greater standards of detail and prototype fidelity (that not all real-world buyers actually want) and now don't want to pay the resulting higher prices as evidenced by the plethora of topics regarding excessive price, greedy hobby shops, and greedy manufacturer/distributors.

They were utterly clueless all along, and Atlas at long last finally did the right thing by killing them off.

[Rangerover1944]

2-8-8-4
I totally agree with some of your post but I must add, it's only the few that were the critical poster's. I rarely posted on the site and if and when I got bad negative flammed  response's from those that we know, from experience over the 7 years I was there were offensive, I stopped responding, like I said in a previous post, "ignore the trolls, don't feed them".

Most of the time I lurked or only opened threads of interest to me or to solve a problem, learned how to use the search button especially there. I must say again too that I did appreciate the majority of the modellers on that site and I will follow a few who have helped me over the years to other sites they are going to. All in all I'm gonna miss the Atlas site! Jim

[2-8-8-4]

Thank you for your reply.

Yes there were some good people on there, too.

I will keep any discussions on here much more civil than they were there.

Best Regards--

2-8-8-4

[Desertdweller]

I would hope the constructive posters from the Atlas site will consider making use of this site.  The flamers and trolls can find someplace else to vex.

This site's toleration of constructive criticism and willingness to share solutions for problems encountered in all makers' products has made it a sort of clearing house for information that can help all model railroaders.  This would not have happened if this site had become a place to gripe, or if only Bachmann products could be discussed.  It reminds me of the political phrase " a rising tide lifts all boats."

I've literally spent half my life collecting and operating N-scale equipment.  I've seen a lot of very good models, and also a lot of junk.  Some of the very good locomotives have lasted for years and are still in use.  Other very good locomotives were used so much they completely wore out.  The ones that were never much good generally didn't last past their first year.

I am an operator more than I am a collector.  My stuff gets used, and if I can modify it for better performance, I will.  These are not priceless heirlooms that are not to be used.  N-scale models hardly ever go away permanently.  If a model has sales appeal, it will reappear in production, often in an improved form.  The very nature of our models allows an existing body shell to be resurrected with improved mechanisms.  The only time something is truly lost is if a manufacturer goes out of business, and the tooling is destroyed before it can be sold.  Fortunately, this has only happened a few times.

Les

[2-8-8-4]

Les--

I'm an HO guy, and my stuff all gets run.  If it doesn't run well, and I'm not able to fix it fairly easily, it is gone for whatever I'm able to get out of it that I can then put into something that will run well.  However, it still has to look pretty good too...

I've been very pleasantly surprised by the quality and value for the money of recent Bachmann releases--enough so that I'm changing my purchasing habits.

Once upon a time I tried to discourage serious modelers from buying Bachmann products in a train store where I was employed...but some time ago I/we stopped laughing and started realizing that Bachmann/Kader knows what they are doing now.

Best Regards--

2-8-8-4

[Desertdweller]

My experience with Bachmann has been almost entirely with their N-scale products.  For most of the 30+ years I have been in N-scale, Bachmann has been a supplier of lower-priced and entry-level models and sets.  There is nothing wrong with that.  Somebody needs to make decent quality equipment at a price newcomers can afford.

You have to evaluate those early offerings in the context of the market they were aimed at.  For lower-end products, they offered features that were not found on their competitors in that price range.  Things like metal loco frames; large motors; all-wheel drive and electrical pickup.  Even today, there are competitors to Bachmann that don't even offer metal loco frames, just a plastic frame with a roughly-cast lump of lead atop it.

Bachmann was an innovator even in those early days.  Consider the Metroliners, the United Aircraft Turbo Trains, the TGV trains.  Each one of these was truly state-of-the-art railroading at the time these Bachmann trains were brought out.

Where I think Bachmann really shines is in its Customer Service.  They are obviously closely aligned with their engineering department.  If they get feedback from customers that something needs changing, then something gets changed!  An example of running production change is the change from the white nylon axle gears to a more durable material.  Another example is the redesign of the E-Z Track switches.  The original design was brilliant, but apparently exceeded production capabilities for consistent reliability.  I think a lot of manufacturers would have been content to have maybe 90% of the switches work right, and instruct the Customer Service reps to suggest home remedies for the other 10%.

Not Bachmann.  They proceeded with a complete redesign of the switch mechanisms.  Unitized components that could be installed easily in production replaced multiple individual parts that could easily be installed wrong or get out of adjustment.  I have never seen any other manufacturer do anything like that on the scale Bachmann did.

Les

[Rangerover1944]

Oh man, geeez Les you and 2-8-8-4 shhhhhhhhhhh! Now you've gone and done it! All the lurkers are gonna know how great Bachmann loco's really are and how much they've improved, the switch's too. They'll be going out buying them and then they'll be a shortage for Bachmann stuff. Good thing you didn't mention the huge discounts on the DCC Soundtraxx Sound loco's Bachmann has out there and how good they sound and run. I don't know of any other manufacturer who sells DCC sound  equipped loco's brand new for a little over $100.00. Jim

[ryeguyisme]

For most of my model railroading endeavors I have stayed here on the Bachmann Forums, I've been around since the forums were on a white screen, I think what started it was I was looking for a certain locomotive bachmann made and then I eventually just migrated into discussing topics and more recently showing off some of my kitbashing projects to hopefully better inspire my generation to think outside the RTR box.

Just taking a short trip to the Thomas forum and looking at some of their projects really keep the faith I have alive for my generation and this hobby. Those guys will take parts from three different sources to make their favorite character whoever it may be.

I love discussing steam on the forum and projects involving them, I have a PRR K4 pacific that I'm butchering to make a new haven I-4 out of (sorry yardmaster, I'm unfavorable of PRR) I melted the belpaire over to make a more appropriate firebox for my needs.

Rerailing the topic here, I've been around since the site was hacked, and spammed to death, from the trolls to the friends I've met and still talk to to this day. I have to say the Bachmann Forum is tried and true for me.

The Bach-man has always been a good person in sickness(*cough* sorry) and in health, its good he has yardmaster to help with the maintaining of this board.

All in All Cheers  

-Rye Guy


PS- its been oh, almost a decade I think here?!?! maybe more