ALCO 2-6-0 Pulling power

[Ronman]

Does anyone have any comments on the pulling power of this unit? I have a 4% grade on my table and am curious if anyone has found any issues with it's power on such a grade.

[J3a-614]

I don't own one of the new 2-6-0s (though I wish I did, it's a neat smaller locomotive, and I would think an answer to the prayers of so many who wanted one for years around here), but I wouldn't expect it to haul much up a 4% grade.

Indeed, the haulage capacity of anything is going to be seriously reduced on something that steep, and that includes the prototypes.  In fact, the prototypes consider 2% quite steep; on a mainline with heavy trains, that calls for helper service.

The Western Maryland used to have a line up the Blackwater Canyon in West Virginia (abandoned now since the 1980s).  It was 3%, and had lots of curves, too.  Standard operating procedure in the late steam era was 10--10!--H-9 (WM class, not the famous PRR class) 2-8-0s on a 100-car coal train!  These engines, despite the age of the wheel arrangement, were not old and small; they were behemoths built in the 1920s, just about the heaviest in the world of that wheel arrangement, and weighed something like 150 tons, with long, graceful 12-wheel tenders--much larger than the 2-8-0 Bachmann sells (although driver diameter was about the same):

http://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/014240/HO-Oriental-WM-H-9-2-8-0-Worthington-FWH

The engines were run with three on the point, four in the middle, and three more cut in ahead of the caboose.  Coordination between the engineers was with whistle signals, and smoke and sound were reported to be fantastic.  One fellow, photographing such a coal train as it clawed its way up the 3%, commented that the lead engines smoked up the canyon so much he almost couldn't get a photo of the mid-train helpers because the sun was blotted out!  (The smoke did clear just in time, though.)

The diesel operation still required 10 units, but only three crews, thanks to diesels having MU controls.

Solution:  buy more 2-6-0s!

P.S.:  Coming down something that steep can be as big a problem as going up.  I don't have time to go into this, but others can tell you about gear bucking on down grades.

[Pacific Northern]

The new Alco 2-6-0 is light on its feet. On my layout it will just pull three 60' passenger coaches on my 2% grade.

If you have 4% grades on your layout I would reconsider this engine and consider a larger heavyier engine for such a high grade. You might consider the Bullfrog Snot for coating some of your drivers, I am advised it works very well for handling grades.

Note that there are no traction tires on this model so I consider its pulling power adequate for what I need it for.

I did add weight to the tender as it was riding too light and I was haveing problems going through switches. Once I added weight to the tender it runs fine now. I did not try to add any weight to the engine itself, maybe later, but I doubt it.

[richg]

I would not expect a road to use a 2-6-0 on 4 percent grades. I think you are asking for too much from this loco. Just maybe with two 34 foot wood coaches which one road did on steep grades many years ago.

Rich

[J3a-614]

Can you tell us, outside of the 4% grade, what is your railroad like?  Indeed, what is the 4% for?  If it's just a lead to a spur, and you're only shoving one or two cars up to a factory or mine, your proposed 2-6-0 would be fine for the work.  On the other hand, if that 4% is in your main line, that small engine may not be too good for what you want to use it for.

On the other hand, it was not unusual for even a main line railroad to occasionally have an odd engine or two for switching or work train service or for handling a short, two-car local passenger train.  If you are going to use the engine for something limited like that, it may still be usable for you.

[captain1313]

Ronman

Your not alone.  My new ALCO 4-6-0 is a little short on the pulling power.  My other 4-6-0 and  4-4-0 have twice the pulling power up a 3.7% grade.  It is what it is.  Now the ALCO S4 is another story.  Almost unstoppable.

Kevin

[Doneldon]

Cap'n-

Put a bit of weight in your 2-6-0 and it will pull a little better.

                                                                                  -- D

[Ronman]

Thanks for all of your input.

[captain1313]

Ronman

I noticed a lot of down force on the pilot truck.  Loco had trouble getting it's self and a caboose up a 3.7% grade. Took it off and bent the bracket a bit.  Now it pulls 2 tankers, a box car and a caboose up the grade at speed step 25.  I guess that pilot was lifting the drives up just enough to loose some traction.  Don't know if it will work for you but you have nothing to loose.

Mr. D

I was looking at how to add some weight but can't figure out how to get the boiler off. 

Kevin   

[rogertra]

Ronman

I noticed a lot of down force on the pilot truck.  Loco had trouble getting it's self and a caboose up a 3.7% grade. Took it off and bent the bracket a bit.  Now it pulls 2 tankers, a box car and a caboose up the grade at speed step 25.  I guess that pilot was lifting the drives up just enough to loose some traction.  Don't know if it will work for you but you have nothing to loose.

Kevin  

There is a simple fact of physics that people keep forgetting and I keep repeating.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Therefore, simple physics states that for 'X' amount of force pressing down on the spring(s) over the trucks, both leading and trailing, then that same 'X' amount of force is also trying to lift the locomotive.

Result?  Loss of traction.

Solution?  Remove all springs bearing down on locomotive trucks and you will notice an improvement in your locomotives' pulling abilities.  The weight of the truck alone is usually more than adequate on well laid track and the springs are not required, ever.  If however, you do find that the truck(s) have a tendency to derail, then add a little weight to the top of the trucks to keep them running smoothly.  Do not reinstall the springs.

[Pacific Northern]

Ronman

Your not alone.  My new ALCO 4-6-0 is a little short on the pulling power.  My other 4-6-0 and  4-4-0 have twice the pulling power up a 3.7% grade.  It is what it is.  Now the ALCO S4 is another story.  Almost unstoppable.

Kevin

The new Alco 2-6-0 has a plastic boiler, the Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-0 and 4-4-0's have die cast boilers, big diff in weight.

[ryeguyisme]

surprised no one has mentioned it yet but "Bullfrog Snot" the engine and it'll pull alot better, the only downside is whatever driving wheel you apply the snot to won't pickup electrical

[Jerrys HO]

rye

Don't be surprised, as it was mentioned.....

Posted by: Pacific Northern    Posted on: April 08, 2012, 01:36:38 PM
Insert Quote
The new Alco 2-6-0 is light on its feet. On my layout it will just pull three 60' passenger coaches on my 2% grade.

If you have 4% grades on your layout I would reconsider this engine and consider a larger heavyier engine for such a high grade. You might consider the Bullfrog Snot for coating some of your drivers, I am advised it works very well for handling grades.

Note that there are no traction tires on this model so I consider its pulling power adequate for what I need it for.

I did add weight to the tender as it was riding too light and I was haveing problems going through switches. Once I added weight to the tender it runs fine now. I did not try to add any weight to the engine itself, maybe later, but I doubt it.

Jerry

[Patrick Durand]

You can go here to find answers to opening the little Mogul up and adding weight.
http://alaskarails.org/creations/PD-208/index.html

Remove the two screws under the cab on each side of the cable socket.   Pull off the pressed on top of the sand dome (right behind the stack).  Under there you will find the third screw.  Now grab the cab at the back and rotate the cab/boiler up and forward.  The pilot braces will swing aside out of the way.   

Fill the available space in the domes and stack.  There are a few small voids on the boiler weight that can be filled.  Add sheet lead in the cab roof and below the windows on the sides.  Add a large chunk on the firing deck.  Fill in between the frame extensions behind the coupler under the pilot deck.   


If you want to tune up the sound, use JRMI and any of the generic Tsunami files, to adjust volume of the limited sounds available, and add some momentum while you program your new address number.

My appreciation of the sophistication of Bachmann's design and execution of this little critter grows with each one I encounter.   Working on my 5th kit bash so far and the basic unit is a solid foundation.   I am still hoping that Bachmann will consider the same technology in design and offer the largest single class of locomotive ever built in North America.   That would be the 2120 copies of the U.S. Army Transportation Corps   S-160 Consolidations.  G.I. Consolidations made it to every continent but for Australia and Antarctica.

Pat Durand

[2-8-8-4]

There is a simple fact of physics that people keep forgetting and I keep repeating.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Therefore, simple physics states that for 'X' amount of force pressing down on the spring(s) over the trucks, both leading and trailing, then that same 'X' amount of force is also trying to lift the locomotive.

Result?  Loss of traction.

Solution?  Remove all springs bearing down on locomotive trucks and you will notice an improvement in your locomotives' pulling abilities.  The weight of the truck alone is usually more than adequate on well laid track and the springs are not required, ever.  If however, you do find that the truck(s) have a tendency to derail, then add a little weight to the top of the trucks to keep them running smoothly.  Do not reinstall the springs.

I must respectfully disagree.

The springs on leading and trailing trucks of model steam locomotives are often necessary when passing through certain complicated HO trackwork--in particular the Peco three-way turnouts, single- and double-slip switches, and also some of the #6 and #8 turnouts of other manufacturers including but not limited to Shinohara and Kato.  This is true even when the locomotives, leading and trailing trucks are constructed of brass and are heavy--the springs help to keep the trucks from "picking" turnouts and derailing (especially during backup maneuvers).

When I purchased the zamac boilered (and heavy) Oriental Limited Powerhouse Series 2-8-8-2's during the late 1980's, I found it necessary to add springs to those trucks that didn't have them for backup maneuvers to be successful without derailing.

Also, there are some locomotives that have limited clearance to "add weight to the top of the truck" because those trucks still have to pivot and clear other adjacent details.

The one Bachmann ALCO 2-6-0 on my layout so far pulls an adequate number of cars for me (about 7 on my layout).  I very much prefer the fact that there are no traction tires to fail or cause operational/wear problems (over time) with the valve gear.  Also, the wimpy lead truck spring on this engine is not strong enough to provide any meaningful, traction robbing "lift".  It is just fine for tracking through my turnouts.

Respectfully submitted--

2-8-8-4