Battery power for HO locomotives?

[dan3192]

Greetings! I'm new to this forum and would like to tell you about my project. It began 3 years ago and I am at the point of completing a prototype engine that is battery powered and radio controlled. I can tell you it works very well, so well that a 2nd engine is now being constructed with more power and longer run times.

Before I get into the details (on another post since it looks like I have some limitations) I'd like to mention why radio control appeals to me.
* I can eliminate the considerable time and cost it takes to wire all my track.
* Track maintenance isn't required for optimizing the operation and control of my trains
* Radio control is a mature, proven and dependable technology
* Trackwork can be complex with no electrical consequences.
* Switches and crossovers will look better and be cheaper to build
* Operation using a stick is more seamless than other methods
* I'm not tied to a "pre-existing condition" (existing layout, DCC equipment)




         

[dan3192]

OK, let me continue with what I've done to create a practical battery powered, radio controlled HO locomotive. For the transmitter, I chose a Spektrum DX5e using the new 2.4 GHz frequency band with DSM2 modulation. If you are just starting out, this is the way to go. I used the receiver that came with it, a Spektrum AR500, with same frequency and modulation. The speed controller is a surface type with reversing capability.

Batteries took a while to investigate and decide on. While traditional Lithium types, or LiPos seemed obvious, the newer LiFePO4 batteries, just being introduced, are the ones to get. For now, and for practical reasons, I use Eneloop (Sanyo) pre-charged rechargeable batteries.

What makes this all practical is the type of motor you use. For maximum power, using a minimum amount of current, I use a brushed, Swiss precision motor. Installed in an AMD-103, I get considerable pulling effort and an approximate run time of 6-8 hours. My second prototype will use a combination receiver-speed controller small enough to allow twice as many on-board batteries. MUing is possible by using a second locomotive with its receiver also bound to the same transmitter.

Hope this helps those with similar interests as mine. 

Dan
   

[Doneldon]

dan-

Congratulations on your radio/battery technology. I will guess that more users, particularly large scalers, will embrace such a technology as time goes on. However, I do have a couple of questions.

You mention that "Switches and crossovers will look better and be cheaper to build." I can see that there will be some savings in build cost but I don't get how your technology will make switches (turnouts) or crossovers "look better." It seems to me that appearance won't change unless there is new technology in the switch motion which you don't describe here. Whether one sends instructions to a switch machine via wires, rails (a la DCC), fingers or radio, the same motion equipment will look the same. Do you also have a new way to control the motion of turnouts? If not, I cannot see how switch appearance would be any different. If so, please describe such components.

How does your system change consisting or even just discontinue consisting? I presume that consisting as you describe it requires that each locomotive's receiver be set to the same frequency as the throttle/control the train's user is operating. So ... will changing consists or "deconsisting" involve changing the physical receivers or will the receivers be tunable to different frequencies? If they are tunable, how will one remotely retune the locos? How will one avoid retuning all receivers set to the same new frequency when you want to change only one of them? It seems that sending the message to change from frequency A to frequency B will be heard and heeded by all receivers set to A. Also, will the throttle/control units also be tunable so one controller can send instructions to different locomotives or consists?

What are the projected costs of such a radio system, especially the exotic battery technology? What is the projected useful life of the LiFePO₄ batteries? I don't mean how long will a charge last but how many charge/discharge cycles will the batteries survive or how long on the calendar will they work.

What does "Operation using a stick" mean?

My last questions are the obvious ones: How does your new system outperform existing radio and battery systems? (Few model rails use radio control and battery power today, except for some large scalers.) Will the physical size of your receiver and batteries be small enough to be practical in scales like HO or O? Your statement that you will use a "combination receiver-speed controller small enough to allow twice as many on-board batteries" in your future prototype leads me to understand that your system probably is small enough to fit in models smaller than large scale but I want to know if that is an accurate statement.

Thank you for indulging me and my questions. I look forward to your reply.
                                                                                                                -- D

[blwfish]

Don't put them on separate frequencies from the computers! In fact, put them on the wifi. Give every loco an address, and control them that way. (If you think about it, that's more or less what a DCC system does today, except that it's called a CV instead of an IP address. We put them all on a single network - the track - and signals are broadcast, with only the recipient acting upon the relevant ones.)

Someone - Tam Valley Depot? - is already working on a way to use a radio controlled, battery powered adapter for DCC systems. So you can use your DCC systems as its - the control goes via radio and not via track. The technology is not quite there yet - the problem is not enough power, from what I understand. But they'll get there pretty soon. I'm not sure it will fit in N scale at first, but I would assume it'll work its way down to N and even Z eventually.

[CNE Runner]

ANYTHING that frees us from cleaning track has my undivided attention. I don't see a problem with radio control (a chap on Free Rails converted an HO Bachmann 44-Ton locomotive to radio control)...the vexing problem is with powering said locomotive.

What caught my eye was the 6-8 hour run time on the batteries...amazing! I would wonder how many batteries a (for sake of argument) HO, GE 45-Ton locomotive would require? Analogous with that question is: "Where are you going to put those batteries?" Running a Big Boy on radio control/battery power is one thing...running a small switching locomotive is another.

I understand the military is developing ultra-small batteries (and control systems) to power extremely small drones. Perhaps some of this technology will trickle down to the hobby. Unfortunately I think said technology will be extremely expensive (witness the price of ultra-slim laptops).

Don't give up on this project...we can all share in your dream.

Ray

[SmokeyNSteamer]

Recently, Northwest Shortline announced its S-CAB radio DCC system, allowing benefits of DCC without the costly infastructure.  It can be track- or battery-powered.

Imagine, not having to worry about dirt or dead spots. http://www.nwsl.com/S-CAB_Radio_DCC_Control.html

[Doneldon]

S N S -

I read all of the information on the NWSL but I didn't find anything about consisting. Do you know if consisting is possible?

                                                                                                                                                                           -- D

[CNE Runner]

'Tried on two different occasions to open that NWSL web page and couldn't...I wonder why?

Ray

[Doneldon]

'Tried on two different occasions to open that NWSL web page and couldn't...I wonder why?

Ray

Ray-

Like you, I found part of the web site unavailable. It could be a computer glitch or an update in progress.

                                                                                                                                                 -- D

[SmokeyNSteamer]

It seems to me that the webpage worked.  Here's a direct link to the documentation:

General Info:
http://www.nwsl.com/uploads/S-CAB_cat_page_10.pdf
FAQ's:
http://www.nwsl.com/uploads/S-CAB_Q-A_V2.pdf
Battery Power Supply Info:
http://www.nwsl.com/uploads/BPS_2.4a_J30-catalog.pdf
User Guide:
http://www.nwsl.com/uploads/S-CAB_User_s_Guide_v2c.pdf
Certified Dealers:
http://www.nwsl.com/uploads/S-CAB_INSTALLER_-WEB_224.pdf
Part #/Prices:
http://www.nwsl.com/uploads/S-CAB_tsunami_PART_NOS.pdf

[CNE Runner]

Smokey - I tried all your links @ 0842 CDT and couldn't get any of them to open. Not a problem as I was only curious.

Ray

[Jerrys HO]

Ray

I am not a computer wizard but I noticed when I pulled them up that they open in a PDF form. That may be your problem. I don't know if they pull up on adobe and other's alike. Maybe richg can elaborate.

They are worth reading though. I think I will stick to DCC. A little work to keep things running never hurt.

Jerry

[Joe323]

Seems to me battery power is slightly unprototypical.  Ever hear of a real electric train running on batteries No they get their power from overhead wires (Notheast Corridor for example) or third rail (NYC subway).  But for non -electric modelers like myself this shows promise.

[Doneldon]

Seems to me battery power is slightly unprototypical.  Ever hear of a real electric train running on batteries No they get their power from overhead wires (Notheast Corridor for example) or third rail (NYC subway).  But for non -electric modelers like myself this shows promise.

Joe-

Seems to me that plastic and brass trains with plastic people (if any)
riding in permanent rigor mortis isn't very prototypical, either.
                                                                                             -- D

[RAM]

Joe. If you do a little checking you will find out that battery power is prototypical.  Some all electric railroads did have some locomotive with batteries.  They were used in switching where they did not have overhead wires.  They may have also used them in plants where you did not want any sparks.