Do I have a bad E-unit?

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I have run W/WBBwth a 75 W MTH transformer AND passenger cars.  Thing worked.

Thanks for the input. 

I have some research into transformers to do. 

[DominicMazoch]

In the PW era, transformers tened to loose power because of heat.  Hence a Lionel 1033/44 said 90W, but over time, it was good for 75.

Modern transformers tend not to loose power as they heat up.  Hence Lionel, Atlas, and MTH 75W units can run a W/WBB loco, even though W/WBB recommends 90.

But, if you are running cars with lights, extra wattage is a help.  Also, you might want to exchange lights in lighted cars with LED's.  Not the light of the PW, but they do run cooler important inside closed bodies, especially plastric.  Also, they use less juice per bulb, which increases the range of the transformer.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

In the PW era, transformers tened to loose power because of heat.  Hence a Lionel 1033/44 said 90W, but over time, it was good for 75.

Modern transformers tend not to loose power as they heat up.  Hence Lionel, Atlas, and MTH 75W units can run a W/WBB loco, even though W/WBB recommends 90.

Well, but which Lionel transformer? That's the issue here, or so I'm being told. My Lionel CW-80 runs my Lionel engines, including my brand-new Strasburg 0-8-0 and Rio Grande 4-4-0, on a small loop of track on the floor around my dining room table    perfectly well, even with the 0-8-0 pulling five lighted Lionel Madison passenger cars.

On the other hand, my WBB 4-6-0 acts like an engine possessed, only running in reverse, then running forward, then stopping with a jerk and changing direction without me touching the speed control or the reverse button on the transformer. I'm being told that the problem is the transformer, not the E-unit. It makes no difference whether I run the 4-6-0 by itself or pulling a short train (three cars including two lighted Lionel passenger cars).

I'm willing to invest in a Bachmann transformer to see if that makes a difference, but if it doesn't, the engine is going to Bachmann service.

But thanks for the input. I'm learning a lot from you more experienced guys, and I very much appreciate it!

[phillyreading]

A Lionel transformer from the 1960's would do well, like a 275 watt ZW, and it should run almost every type of engine in regular or conventional mode(non-command control).
The CW-80 works well with modern Lionel but it has some electronic issues when used with other brands, especially MTH PS-2 engines. The CW-80 has a chopped sign wave output, or cut-down AC waves( in laymans terms, you are not getting complete voltage).
So it is best to have at least two different types of transformers, this way you can test your engines on more than one power source to see if the E unit is working right. Most other transformers will work with Williams.
MTH's Z-1000 is very good with Williams engines and has both the bell and whistle/horn buttons.

Lee F.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

A Lionel transformer from the 1960's would do well, like a 275 watt ZW, and it should run almost every type of engine in regular or conventional mode(non-command control).
The CW-80 works well with modern Lionel but it has some electronic issues when used with other brands, especially MTH PS-2 engines. The CW-80 has a chopped sign wave output, or cut-down AC waves( in laymans terms, you are not getting complete voltage).
So it is best to have at least two different types of transformers, this way you can test your engines on more than one power source to see if the E unit is working right. Most other transformers will work with Williams.
MTH's Z-1000 is very good with Williams engines and has both the bell and whistle/horn buttons.

Lee F.

Thanks, Lee! That's extremely helpful. Thanks for "naming names," so to speak.  I'll have to double check the literature with the 4-6-0; I think I remember seeing something somewhere about the sine wave.

Jeff

BTW: Does anybody have any experience with Bachmann's own transformer?

[stubbsO]

JB Jeff- If your looking for a more powerful transformer without spending a bunch. I have a Lionel TW that's a 175 watt that I'll let go for a good price.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

JB Jeff- If your looking for a more powerful transformer without spending a bunch. I have a Lionel TW that's a 175 watt that I'll let go for a good price.

Thank you for the offer but I think I need to take a pass on it. But I'm obliged for your thoughtfulness.

J.B.J.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Well, we will just have to wait and see how this goes.

I have just ordered Bachmann's own AC transformer, #00233.

Seems to me, the transformer Bachmann sells ought to run a WBB locomotive.

If the locomotive still doesn't run properly with the Bachmann transformer, then I think I will be sending the locomotive to Customer Service. I really don't know what else to do. I'm a very casual O-gauge railroader, and I'm not going to buy transformers willy-nilly until I find one that runs this 4-6-0 properly.

[phillyreading]

I really hope that the Williams transformer solves your problem with the E-unit!

A little info about another brand, MTH, I had to buy a Z-1000 to run the MTH PS-2, or Proto Sound 2, engines with. Brand "L" transformer would make the MTH engine act crazy.

It seems like the more the O gauge market gets into electronics and command control, the more complicated things become. Each company needs it's own transformer or set of electronics to operate it's product or bad results happen, anything from not having something work to the horn or whistle blowing constantly.

Lee F.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I really hope that the Williams transformer solves your problem with the E-unit!

Thanks!

A little info about another brand, MTH, I had to buy a Z-1000 to run the MTH PS-2, or Proto Sound 2, engines with. Brand "L" transformer would make the MTH engine act crazy.

It seems like the more the O gauge market gets into electronics and command control, the more complicated things become. Each company needs it's own transformer or set of electronics to operate it's product or bad results happen, anything from not having something work to the horn or whistle blowing constantly.

Lee F.

Oi! 

Seriously, thanks for the good wish, and I hope this solves the problem, too. I don't mean to come off as a sour customer, because I really think the 4-6-0 is a beautiful model engine--I wouldn't have bought it if I thought otherwise. But, as I said, one would hope that a Bachmann transformer will run a Bachmann engine, and if it doesn't, the engine will have to go to Customer Service.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Well, the WBB transformer arrived yesterday, and after church today I set up a loop of track (Lionel FasTrack) around the dining room table.

My ten-wheeler will run forward reliably powered by the WBB transformer.

As long as I don't blow the whistle.

Or ring the bell.

Or turn the speed control higher than the 50% marking on the dial. 

This is getting both ridiculous and frustrating--frustrating because the engine doesn't work properly--period--and frustrating because things don't malfunction reliably. By that I mean, for example, blowing the whistle actually throws the engine into reverse    --but not always. Same thing for ringing the bell. (And I have to say I think the engine has a beautifully authentic-sounding whistle, and the bell sounds nice, too.)

The only "reliable" malfunction is that if I turn the speed control knob higher than 50%, the engine will jerk to a halt, jump into reverse, almost immediately jump back into forward, and continue this outrageous back-and-forth maneuvering until I turn the speed knob below 50%.

I give up. As I've written before, I am a very casual O-gauge railroader, encouraged to branch out from my lifetime in HO by some of the really beautiful equipment that I'm now seeing in O gauge--including this ten-wheeler.

I expect tomorrow I will call Customer Service again, just to make sure it's OK for me to send the engine to Bachmann. But I have to say this will probably be my first and last WBB locomotive. I have heard wonderful things about Bachmann Customer Service, and I'm confident my problems with this engine can be resolved, but, I have to say, when I pay almost $200 for a model locomotive, regardless of scale, I expect it to work properly right out of the box, and I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, even though I know that isn't always the case.

[M1FredQ]

My advice would be to hold judgement about future WBB engines until after your problem is resolved.

Just before Christmas and after I made some purchases of WBB Locomotives and Diesel Engines.

I have a 1950's ZW and 2 of those CW-80's from a Polar Express set and a El Capitan Set. Most of what
I bought ran well. But I did have a problem with a couple of the units I bought. When I finally connected with Customer
Service I found them very helpful and eager to help me resolve the issues I was experiencing.

When some of the suggestions didn't work out they wanted me to send  the units back for them to look at and
repair. So I have done that and should be having my units returned to me in a few more weeks.

I am really impressed with the quality of their products and how they are so thoughtfully packaged right down
to the red ribbons and high quality boxes which are meant to last from one generation to another.

The other factor is the affordability which I really appreciate. With 5 kids and a whole lot of other expenses its nice
knowing my son and I can add a couple of extra engines and we won't blow the budget!!!

Best wishes

[M1FredQ]

I wanted to add the CW-80's are quite not that powerful so like many have mentioned, I do experience
engine slow down when I activate Bell and Whistle sounds, it's noticeable but not a big enough deal for
me to get all excited about. I can live with it for now and will eventually pick up a WBB BIG Transformer.
I did hook my ZW at one point but couldn't get any of the rail sounds to work.  So I went back to using the
CW-80's

If anyone has any suggestions please let me know!!!!!!!!!1

[phillyreading]

I would use the Williams or Atlas 80 watt transformer before using the CW-80. The CW-80 throws the circuit breaker too quick as well as not having enuff power.

With the older Williams engines, before Bachmann, you may need to start at a lower power setting and wait a few seconds for the sound to kick in. Also with the postwar ZW's, you do not push the whistle control all the way, sometimes only two/thirds of the way and hold for a couple of seconds.

Lee F.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

My advice would be to hold judgement about future WBB engines until after your problem is resolved.

The folks at Bachmann with whom I have had previous contact have all been friendly and helpful and came across as genuinely interested in helping a customer (me) resolve a problem. But I'm afraid I consider great customer service to be beside my point that I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a $200-engine to work properly out of the box.

I've been very happy with the Bachmann Spectrum HO engines I've bought, specifically the Richmond 4-4-0; the only problem I had with getting my 4-4-0 up and running right out of the box was me not having the plug pushed in far enough  (not the problem with my WBB ten-wheeler). My On30 2-6-0 is a beautiful model that ran like butter right out of the box. I'm not here to trash Bachmann--as a matter of fact, this weekend I just bought an On30 Porter--or even WBB, but after this experience with the ten-wheeler, I expect that I will be sticking with Lionel if or when I make another purchase of an O-gauge locomotive.

My experience is that my six Lionel locomotives--even the "vintage" ones that were lying around somewhere since the 1970s and 1980s before I bought them--all worked fine right out of the box. My one WBB engine is a problem. Maybe I just got the one bum engine in a batch of perfect locomotives, but given my "numerical experience" in O gauge, which O-gauge manufacturer would inspire more confidence in you to part with hard-earned dollars?

(BTW, I like the WBB transformer, and it ran at least one of my Lionel locomotives just fine.)