3rail & 671 - Golden Memories Luxury Lines 3 Car Madison Set (WBB 43450 ) fluke?

[Joe Satnik]

Dear All,

There is an auction listing on e-bay showing a photo of a 2626 Sager Place passenger car as a Pullman, not an Observation as listed and shown in the catalog.

In other words, all three cars in the auction set are Pullmans. 

Was this a one-time manufacturing mistake (fluke), or do they actually come packaged all three as Pullmans?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILLIAMS-SET-2625-IRVINGTON-2626-SAGER-PLACE-2627-MADISON-PASSENGER-CARS-LIONEL-/270903896561?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f132169f1

Mouse over or click on 4th picture.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[671]

Hi Joe,

         Lionel's late 40's early 50's catalogue indicates three "Pullman" cars in the Madison set. It did not have an observation car.
         "Sager" was not a name, indicated in the catalogues, on any of the cars at that time.
         Possibly this is an early Williams reproduction trying to emulate the original Lionel. I do not know for sure. Lionel, I strongly believe, did make the "Madison Set" without Observation cars.
         
         If this is not the case, then someone is trying to sell passenger cars that have been "Monkeyed With"  I.e.  Mixed parts from different units to make a car to sell.

                               Nice talking with you again...671

[671]

Hi Joe,

         671 here.

         Mario's trains sells the three car set @ $ 105 and Trainland / Trainworld sells it at $115. Sager is the Observation car in their sets.

                                 Hope this helps...671

[phillyreading]

I don't think this set has been tampered with or mixed up as another person thinks it might be. Williams sold passenger sets, or other sets, the way they wanted to, and at times that ment some unusual sets. I have a set of Williams Crown Edition passenger cars that I bought about 12 years ago, then I bought another set that I thought was identical except for underneath on the truck assemblies.   At times I think that Williams did what Lionel did a few times and that was they used parts that they had on hand and didn't have to buy again.
You can not hold these to the original set-up that Lionel sold during the 1950' or 60's. Remember these are Williams and not Lionel.

Lee F.

[r0gruth]

Lionel did not make an observation forthe "Madison" cars.

The cars discussed above are Williams and do not need to be the same  as Lionel.
I think Williams did make an observation for this series.

[DominicMazoch]

Lionel Obs car:

1.  In the PW era, NO!
2.  In the recent past, YES

[r0gruth]

Lionel Obs car:

1.  In the PW era, NO!
2.  In the recent past, YES

Agreed.