Digitrax Radio/Infrared Throttles

[Jake]

Hey it's me again. Mr. 20,000,000 questions. For a layout I am currently working on, I plan to buy a Digitrax Super Empire Builder set and a few extra throttles later on. Now I want to use the Infrared signaling feature, now aside from buying a UR91 Radio/IR Receiver Unit to replace the UP-5 Interconnect panel, is there anything I have to do to use the Infrared signaling? And also, can the UR91s handle input from multiple throttles? Thanks for all the help you guys have given me so far, you are all life savers! 

[Nigel]

The IR receiver can handle multiple throttles.

They attach to the Loconet like everything else.

The problem with IR throttles is that they have to be pointed at the receiver to function.  You will need several, even for a small layout.  On a bigger layout, radio will be about the same price because on receiver can cover a over 1000 sq ft easily, and have much much fewer hassles.

COMRail in OKC has two radio receivers covering over a layout room of over 4000 sq ft.

If you choose to go radio, mount the receiver(s) as high as possible, on the ceiling is best.

For IR, you'll need to put receivers in locations that are comfortable for users to point thier throttles.

[Jake]

So it seems to me that Infrared can be a bit of a hassle. Now for radio, would it be okay to mount one on the side of  the layout in the middle, because it is too impractical for me to mount the receivers on the ceiling.

[ebtbob]

Jake,

      The simpliest comparison I ever heard for the difference between I.R. and radio is this....imagine being in a room and a friend is in another.   For you to see your friend(I.R.) you need to move to be in a line of sight to see him.  To hear you friend(radio) you can speak to your friend from where you are without having to move.

Bob

[Hunt]

Jake,
I advise you to rethink your decision to buy Super Empire Builder and any set using infrared instead of radio.

For starters, Super Empire Builder set does not support a program track and infrared is more problematic than radio. Use infrared only if the layout is in an area with strong radio interference.

In the Digitrax product line Zephyr or the Super Chief is a better choice than Super Empire Builder.

[Jake]

Howcome? The Command Station/Booster it uses has programming outputs. I'm also starting to get the impression that I should stray away from the sets and purchase components individually. DCC can be so confusing sometimes.

[Jim Banner]

I rarely disagree with Nigel but my experience is that mounting the IR receiver in the ceiling is the best location.  Most users I have observed tend to point the end of their throttle upwards.  If you have light coloured walls (think puffy white clouds high on the backdrop) around the layout, you can often get enough bounce to operate the IR link even if the throttle is pointed away from the receiver.  With radio, just about any location except in the facia is fine.  If you mount it in the facia, you may lose reception when a large belly parks right in front of it.

Let me tell you a little story about one operating session our group had last winter.  The particular layout is in a 14 x 32 foot room with a single IR receiver mounted in the centre of the ceiling.  One group member brought his radio receiver along because he did not trust the IR link.  After a successful evening, he discovered that he had brought his radio receiver all right but had forgotten to connect it to the LocoNet.  Nobody had noticed the difference.  I have yet to live it down.

Radio is the only way to go in the garden, but indoors, it is worth trying IR.  By all means buy the UR91 if you feel you might go to radio eventually, but unless you know you need it right away, buy a DT400 (non-radio.)  It is virtually the same price to buy a DT400 and have radio added to it as it is to buy a DT400R.

I agree with Hunt on Command stations.  I end up using all three (Zephyr, DB150 and DSC100) to troubleshoot problems for various people.  The DB150 command station in the Super Empire Builder set can be very frustrating because it cannot read back CV's.  This often means resetting a decoder and doing a lot of extra programming and note keeping.

Lastly, the UR91 or UR90 does not replace a UP5, it is in addition to to it.  You still need a UP5 for acquiring locomotives and for most programming modes.

The advantage of sets is the dollar savings.  But mix and match can be worth the extra cost.  It is up to you.

[Jake]

Okay, here is what I have deduced thanks to your help, (Thank you!) I feel, that I should purchase a Zephyr starter set, as it supports the read back of Cv and is a command station, and supports extra LocoNet accessories such as a Universal Receiver Unit, and extra tethered/wireless throttles, I should also purchase a booster since I plan on running few trains more than a 2.5 amp current can support, and lastly as a deduction I made a while ago, I should buy a Soundtraxx PTB-100 Programing track booster since I plan having a near completely sound equipped lineup.

[Hunt]

Howcome? The Command Station/Booster it uses has programming outputs.  DCC can be so confusing sometimes.

Yes, DCC can be confusing when one uses assume (as we all have a tendency to do) to fill-in missing information, makeup our own definition for words or terms we don’t yet know the proper meaning and what we don't correctly perceive.

See if this helps you, particularly when you compare the diagrams.

DB150 command station has only output used for both mainline and program track. It does not support separate output to the program track. Thus you must disconnect the mainline when in Service Mode or you will program all decoders.

Look at the diagram on page 26 of the Empire Builder Manual http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/superempire.pdf to see how to wire for programming. Also Empire Builder has only program Write feature, does not have a Read feature.

Now compare to the diagram on page 27 of the Super Chief Manual http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/superchief.pdf , which has separate output for program track and mainline.



You may recall my DCC caveat ---
If you have researched one DCC system or component (example- a decoder) and think all the others are the same – you are mistaken!

[Hunt]

Regarding the equipment you plan to use. Contact both SoundTraxx and Digitrx to determine if either has an observation or qualification about using the other’s equipment with theirs.

[Jake]

Again! You guys are life savers! I don't know where I would be without you! But you are indeed correct. A closer inspection of the picture does show no Prog. A/B outputs, I guess I get a little bit over excited. So, yes, I think I will go with a Supercheif set, and I will upgrade my throttle that came with the set, only becuase I can't stand corded phones, never mind multiple tethered throttles when my friends are over, (though I can live with plugging in short wire for a second to call up an engine or make up consists) and buy an extra 1 or 2 throttles.