Alco S4 w/Tsunami sound question

[railtwister]

Hello Mr. Bach-man,

I just ordered a new Bachmann S4 with factory installed Tsunami sound, and while I'm waiting for the postman, I have begun to wonder if the sound file that comes with it will be for the correct Alco 539 Turbocharged 6 cylinder diesel engine, a generic diesel noise, or an incorrect Alco 12 or 16 cylinder engine. I ask this because Soundtraxx doesn't list the correct 6 cylinder engine on their website as being available. The S4 supposedly used the same Prime Mover as the RS1, a turbocharged six cylinder diesel with a monstrous displacement of 1595 cubic inches per cylinder!

Thanks,
Bill in FL

[railtwister]

Thanks Hunt,

I wasn't aware that Soundtraxx was producing anything other than Tsunami sound units. That explains why I thought the street price of the S4 was so good, since it was advertised as coming with Soundtraxx sound rather than Tsunami or Sound Value. Now I'm wondering what the differences will be between the Tsunami and Sound Value decoders. I hope this is not a case of Bachmann seriously reducing the quality of their sound units just to shave the price a couple of bucks while the competition (except Digitrax) is doing just the opposite by producing ever better sound units. I guess I'll find out soon enough when the package gets here (fingers crossed)...

Bill in FL

[Bucksco]

The quality of the sound decoder installed in the S-4 is 16 bit digital sound (same as a Tsunami). The processor on the previous boards is called a "Tsunami" thus the boards are known as  Tsunami boards. The new DCC Sound Value board features a new processor (newer technology)so we cannot call it a "Tsunami" but it produces the same quality sound. What makes this board different is the fact that it is integrated into the electronics board in the loco (this saves manufacturing costs). We have also limited the sound features to prime mover sound, whistle/horn, bell and steam blow-off. The Sound Value locos feature great digital sounds at a very reasonable price!
Check the S-4 documentation on the SoundTraxx website. I think you'll find that we kept almost all of the CV features intact as well.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM%20pages/bachmann/ho_alcos4_sv.pdf

[railtwister]

Thanks Mr. Yardmaster,

It's good to hear that the sound quality should be as good. As for limiting the the quantity of added sound features, I find that I seldom use most of the manually operated features other than the the bell, horn/whistle, and headlight, but I really do enjoy a couple of the automatic ones like the air compressor coming on, and the brakes squealing when the loco decelerates. My new loco is scheduled to arrive today, and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Bill in FL

[richg]

There are sound decoders made by SoundTraxx for Bachmann that plug into the Bachmann PC board and control the lights, motor and sound.
SoundTraxx makes decoders that are non sound and sound that control everything and are different looking.
Some Diesel decoders also look quite different.
Now Bachmann has a SoundTraxx decoder for the EM-1 that is sound only and a non sound decoder for the loco.
By the way, all decoders are for DCC and many will operate on DC also but with limitations.
The waters are quite muddy as far as decoders go for different companies, including Bachmann.
People who post photos of their DCC loco insides will show the differences. Bachmann diagrams show a simple drawing which does not really demonstrate what the decoder looks like.
Take time to do some decoder research. Sounds like you need to do a lot of looking.
With different links you find in a search, you will see a lot of different style decoders.
I and some others have posted photos here of DCC installs.

Rich

[richg]

The yardmaster says:  What makes this board different is the fact that it is integrated into the electronics board in the loco (this saves manufacturing costs).

PF:  I am electronically challenged.  Were the old "Tsunami" sound decoders separate from the DCC decoder?  Please clarify.

PF

Integrated means, all one PC board. Diesel decoders are integrated.
Most steam where a PC board with a few components and the sound decoder would plug into the PC board 8 pin NMRA connector. That will bring up another queston.
Agsin, do a lot of DCC decoder research.

Rich

[railtwister]

Florynow asked; "Were the old "Tsunami" sound decoders separate from the DCC decoder?"

The few Tsunami equipped Bachmann locos I have opened up had a Tsunami board (sound & decoder together) plugged into a separate board on the loco that had an eight pin DCC-Ready plug that required either a dummy plug (for DC only), a decoder (for DCC/DC), or a sound decoder (for DCC & Sound) be plugged in for the loco to operate. Also on this board were various diodes and capacitors, presumably for light control and motor RF interference suppression. From the blow-up drawings included with the S4, it looks like this "loco board" has been eliminated, and all electronics, whether a DCC decoder or a Soundtraxx decoder are wired in, perhaps in a manner similar to an Atlas loco. The up side is a lower cost loco, the down side is that the loco is no longer "plug & play", it is simply "play". User added sound for a loco originally purchased as a DCC only (non-sound) model will require the removal of the existing (DCC) board and replacing it with a new sound board.

What's surprising is that eliminating the relatively inexpensive light board could result in that much cost savings in the overall price of the loco.

Bill in FL

[richg]

This really should have been a new thread. Many newbies will never look at this discussion. Some never look at any discussions. They just ask a question.

This loco most probably will have what is called a light board type decoder. Everything is on the single PC board, possibly including the light for front and rear and will operate the lights, motor and sound.
As I said, Bachmann so far has not shown actual decoder installations photos.

I you look at the thread about exploring the EM-1, you will see what is in one Bachmann loco. Take your time and look at Jonathan's discussion.
A picture is worth a thousand words which I why I said to look at the different decoder companies and even then, you will not see everything.

Rich

[richg]

... .
Now Bachmann has a SoundTraxx decoder for the EM-1 that is sound only and a non sound decoder for the loco.
...
Rich

Again... The Sound Module add-on for the EM-1 is not a decoder.  

It is a decoder. It decodes all the sounds.

The decoder for the loco decodes the motor signals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoder

I have used many encoders and decoders over the years in different applications.
The EZ Command is an example of an encoder.

Rich

[richg]

Rich, for the last time...  the factory installed decoder in the EM-1 locomtive does all the processing; the Sound Module just contains sound files.

I know that. I have acknowledge that before.

BUT, the sound module is a decoder as defined by decoders. It takes the encoded DCC signal and decodes the signals to produce only sounds.
Many are hung up on a decoder only controlling the motor and lights.

Look up the definition of a decoder. I posted the link.

If Bachmann says it is a sound module, ok. It is, but it decodes the signals to produce sound so it is a decoder also.

Rich

[richg]

If the decoder for the motor also decodes the sounds, then I would agree, the module is probably an amplifier model.

Rich

[richg]

I should add, all the sounds are in a memory chip on the decoder. The DCC signals sent by the controller are used by the microprocessor to select the sounds or any other options on the decoder board.
A couple other companies sell a sound only decoder for locos. Some call it a sound module because it does not control the motor or lights.

Rich

[richg]

I'm not going to do heavy decoder research when I have people here that already know everything and can tell me what's up in summary.   That's how executives run railroads, getting reports rather than hunting everything down themselves.

I know now what I needed to know, thanks, I'm going back to running trains now instead of thinking about deep electrical stuff.  Next time I need a decoder changed, I'll do what I always do, pay someone to do it, not burn my fingers or ruin the decoder, and get a couple of more evenings to operate the railroad with an engine that runs right.

PF

Heh, heh. Point taken. Some have to do that. I grew up with this stuff.

Rich

[richg]

I, a long time ago lost track of all the solder burns. I figured it came with the territory. Started in 1956 with a shortwave radio kit at age 15.
You found a way and that is nice.

Rich

[richg]

Rich, for the last time...  the factory installed decoder in the EM-1 locomtive does all the processing; the Sound Module just contains sound files.

I know that. I have acknowledge that before.

BUT, the sound module is a decoder as defined by decoders. It takes the encoded DCC signal and decodes the signals to produce only sounds.
Many are hung up on a decoder only controlling the motor and lights.

Look up the definition of a decoder. I posted the link.

If Bachmann says it is a sound module, ok. It is, but it decodes the signals to produce sound so it is a decoder also.

Rich

For those who think I am giving opinions, below is a link for the CV's in the Bachmann EM-1 Sound Module.

http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM%20pages/bachmann/bachmann_ho_em-1.pdf

Rich