decoders for N scale locomotives

[Fernando1547]

Dear friends, Im new to this page and anxious to get up and head myself towards the DCC world. Ive unfortunately purchased two starter kits: Bachmann's spirit of christmas and explorer. Not happy enough with those, I went along and purchased 4 more Bachmann locos and 2 trolleys.
The locos are: Prarie 262 W/ full size tender: two EMD GP50's (santa Fe and Norfolk and Southern) and one Plymouth 060 Diesel Loco. The trolleys are: Streamline PCC trolley and Brill Trolley Lighted.
The thing is to be able to install the easiest decoders and hopefully information and tips on installing sound decoders as well.
Any valuable help regarding this matter (using modern decoders with the less hassle and work possible) is appreciated.

Thanks


Fernando

[Fernando1547]

OK so I did some homework...and some christmas shopping   and this is what I picked up.

one MRC Prodigy wireless DCC
6 NCE Z14SR decoders (wired)
One MRC power booster.

Ive read the Forums and made my own idea as to what's in store but specifically I wont be planning to ever take my layout to any show or combine efforts with other modelers as to resent this decision...so far.

For the above, all you knowledgable please dig in with your thoughts and comments. The aim is to receive constructive criticism though and please bear in mind that Ive been around model railroading since my old Tyco Chatanooga way back in the mid 70's and then just sold everything away. So I'm pretty much beginning from scratch in MRR again although I have kept myself busy with RC model ships and planes all these years.

The DCC thing has just too much new information to handle at this point so the questions, although basic as they may seem or repetitive in other posts, I just hope yoo all hang in there and help me push the ignorance wagon to some safe station.

Best of the holidays to all and thanks.

Fernando

[skipgear]

Fernando,
Of the loco's you have, none are easy to install decoders in. All will require soldering, many will require milling/grinding of the frame for clearance.

I'm not sure if there is room at all in the Trolleys.

2-6-2's - The decoder will need to be installed in the tender and 4 wires run between the loco and the tender (6 if you want to add a headlight). For the best performance pick up a Spectrum DCC ready tender for each and retrofit it. This will give you all wheel pickup and improve the performance of the loco's in DC or DCC.

4-8-4 (Explorer Set) - I just completed one of these for a friend and it is another case of installing the decoder in the tender. You should add electrical pickup to the tender also to improve performance.

GP50's - You will need to mill away enough of the frame to make room to fit the decoder then drill and tap the frame to make a screw post to connect the decoder to the frame. It would probably be best to replace the headlights with LED's also.

My suggestions.....

1. Replace the two trolleys with one of the new Spectrum PeterWitt's that come with DCC decoders in them already and blow away those two that you have in performance and detail.

2. Use the steam loco's to learn decoder installs, they are probably the easiest of the bunch to convert.

3. Replace the GP50's with an H16-44, GP7, or RS-3. The H16-44 is a simple decoder install, the GP7 and RS3 come DCC already and again, all will out perform the GP50 which is about a 15 year old design.

Most of the loco's you chose were designed before DCC was even a consideration in N scale. Look at more modern tooling for a better running and more DCC friendly option.

To Hunt,
  There are plenty of good sounding N scale loco's out there. You can't expect to drop in a decoder, stick a speaker to the frame and have studio quality sound. It takes a lot more effort than that. I have N scale sound loco's that rival some of the HO stuff. Just don't expect it to rattle the windows, it's not supposed to. The scale of the sound should match the scale of the loco.

http://youtu.be/E8Aup369Shg

[James in FL]

Hi Fernando1547,

Welcome back to the hobby.

The thing is to be able to install the easiest decoders and hopefully information and tips on installing sound decoders as well

The easiest locos to install DCC decoders in are of the types that accept a "drop-in" decoder. This simply requires the removal of the existing light board and replacement with the decoder in its place. This is simple, easy, and painless.

Unfortunately, none of the locos you list support this feature.
All your locos will require some surgery. Your steamers will require surgery in the tenders as they will require hard wiring, and some means of holding/mounting the speaker itself in place. Also some way to let the sound escape the shell via a hole or number of holes drilled either in the frame bottom or the coal load. Not easy, not simple, and somewhat painful and time consuming.

"Good" sound in N scale is subjective.
IMO sound in N scale is a joke, a bad one at that. To me the sound is very poor at best sounding tinny and quickly becoming an aggravating nuisance.
IMO, sound in N is not worth the cost or effort.

To have onboard sound that rivals HO is not saying much.
On-board sounds in N scale...forgetaboutit!!

Again that is my own personal opinion which is worth exactly what you paid for it.
To each, his own.

What ever you choose, have fun and enjoy your railway the way you like. After all, that's what this hobby is all about.

Everything you want to know, and some things you don't, about DCC here;

http://www.tonystrains.com/index.html

Good luck

[Fernando1547]

Dear friends, I thank you all for your time and patience by responding my above post with your two cents worth. I don't regret having decided the N scale to work with but I'll truly avoid any sound installation on present and future locomotives. I will head out and check sound incorporated to my layout in general but evidently not specific for each loco. Good thing to know I have avoided one more headache among the many to come. The project is ambitious, a 5x5 meter layout for an N scale means a huge amount of rail and I'll try to keep the project local (meaning I'll represent a fictitious loco than can cover the entire Chilean geography, from the southern woods and lakes and Volcanoes to the most northern driest desert in the World with the biggest open copper mine in the planet). I believe it'll be best represented by our occasional coastline and as I said before by a lot of very contrasted geography.
I thank you all once again and I'm looking forward to my DCC decoder install. When the goods arrive and I've checked out all I could through YouTube regarding milling, soldering and so forth and questions still arise, please tell me it's OK to yell and ask for help.

Thanks again to all


Fernando

[Fernando1547]

Now that were at it. Some questions: 1) Does anyone know if the aforementioned Soundtraxx is compatible with MRC controls? 2) Is there a special way to manage all electrical components of a layout for eg; (lighting in houses, streets, drawbars in crossings, etc) or is this to be done with my Digital controller as well. 3) Obviously there are commercial N scale locomotives that come ready to run on DCC and not have to put decoders inside, what are these brands and where should I go looking for them. 4) Does anyone know of locomotors that work with smoke and puff all their way around the layout in N scale please and again where to look for one. 5) Since everything I've stumbled upon is expensive and hard to find, I need a break on cheap things like N scale people, vehicles, houses, signals, rolling stock you name it, I need it ( a personal tip from those more experienced or dedicated will be great.)I'd be willing to purchase internationally as I did my controller and a bunch of other stuff mentioned ( now I'm going fot the tortoise automatic switcher and the hare as well). I've been purchasing from a store called Jim's model Trains. If anybody knows of a great place to shop for the above mentioned that accept international orders, I'd be much appreciated.

That's all for now on my questions and thanks again everyone


Fernando     

[skipgear]

1) Does anyone know if the aforementioned Soundtraxx is compatible with MRC controls?

The SoundTraxx system requires a Digitrax system and decoders with transponding setup.

2) Is there a special way to manage all electrical components of a layout for eg; (lighting in houses, streets, drawbars in crossings, etc) or is this to be done with my Digital controller as well.

You can use decoders to control anything you want but it get's expensive. Each item will have a best way to control it, most by simple switches.

3) Obviously there are commercial N scale locomotives that come ready to run on DCC and not have to put decoders inside, what are these brands and where should I go looking for them.

Bachmann and Atlas are the only companies offering loco's with decoders already installed for the most part. Most people would rather install their own decoders because OEM decoders are generally the cheapest one they could install at the time. You just happened to pick a bunch of old technology loco's that were designed before DCC was a reality for N scale. If you buy newer and better equipment, it will for the most part be DCC ready and easy to install. Check Spookshows site if you are not sure before you buy...

http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/locos.html

4) Does anyone know of locomotors that work with smoke and puff all their way around the layout in N scale please and again where to look for one.

Arnold used to produce some steam loco's with smoke but for the most part I would not reccomend them. The smoke is just vaporized mineral oil and it falls back on your layout and equipment and makes a mess.

[Fernando1547]

Dear Skipgear: First of all, I'd like to thank you for going over each of my questions very carefully. Everything you say makes perfect sense. After having given the initial project some consideration I decided it was the perfect time (meaning I haven't done a single work of construction yet) and returned to my LHS everything N scaled. In just a matter of minutes I was picking up everything in HO and I felt a smile of relief was coming to my face. Let's just face facts, Old technology is something I can deal with, but if given a big enough chassis I can do major refurbishments and thats not the case with N scale as you gentlemen all posted here some way or another. I appreciate having an incorporated souns system on a locomotive regardless of having to engage myself with the rest of it's system as is the case with soundtraxx. For all these above considerations and also to the fact that larger pieces work better on "older" eyes such as mine (painting little figures, etc), I just felt this was the right thing to do. I kept one small set of an N scale locomotive and all the purchased EZ Track in order to hace my christmas layout next year, but for the main project, I'm home again with HO, just as I was back in 76 with my first Chatanooga Choo Choo from Tyco.

To Skipgear and to James in Fl. The very best for this next coming year and hopefully I'll be posting some images on our progress.

Thanks again


Fernando