Explanation Please

[chieffan]

Could someone kindly explain to me the difference between HOn3 and On30.  I know that Bachmann makes the On30 trains that run on standard HO track.  But it is not called "HOn3".  This has me confused.  Thanks much.   Rog

[mhampton]

Could someone kindly explain to me the difference between HOn3 and On30.  I know that Bachmann makes the On30 trains that run on standard HO track.  But it is not called "HOn3".  This has me confused.  Thanks much.   Rog

HOn3 trains are HO scale (1:87) models of 3' narrow-gauge trains.  On30 trains are O scale (1:48) models of 30" narrow-gauge trains.

[Desertdweller]

Ron,

You are confusing "scale" with "track gauge".

"Scale" is the relationship between the size of the models and the full-sized thing modeled.  "O-scale" models are 1/48 actual size.  "HO-scale" models are 1/87.5 actual size.  It has nothing to do with gauge.  There are no such things as "On30"scale models or "HOn3" scale models.

"HOn3" is a track gauge equaling 36" track spacing in HO scale.  An HOn3 model is an HO scale model of a full-size piece of equipment that runs on 36" gauge track.  That is narrow gauge, as the standard track gauge in this country is 4' 8 1/2".

"On30" is a track gauge equaling 30" (2 1/2') in O scale.  An On30 model is an O scale model of a full-size piece of equipment that runs on 30" gauge track.  That, of course, is also a narrow gauge ( but different than 3' gauge).

On30 and HOn3 only applies to the rail spacing.  All other models in O or HO are simply O (1/48) or HO (1/87.5) scale.  There is no such thing as a "narrow gauge" building, auto, or tree.

Since "scale" and "gauge" are separate concepts, consider that HO gauge track used with O-scale models works out to 2 1/2' gauge.  Thus "On30".  Similarly, N-gauge track used with HO-scale models works out to HOn30 (2 1/2' gauge again).

HOn30 is a tad narrower than HOn3.  There is model railroad equipment available for both gauges.  The economy here is N-gauge track can be used instead of the more expensive (or hand-laid) HOn3 track.  You just get an HOn30 track out of it.

In the real world, at least in the USA, 36" was the most commonly used narrow gauge track.  Thus, not only are HOn3 models available, but so are On3.  The next most common narrow gauge was 24".  30" was very rare.  On the other hand, models of either scale running on 30" gauge track can be used to represent both 2' and 3' narrow gauge prototypes.

Les

[NarrowMinded]

Les,

HUH?

Your explanation is both contradictory in terms used and confusing... to me anyway...


NM-Jeff

[rogertra]

Les,

HUH?

Your explanation is both contradictory in terms used and confusing... to me anyway...


NM-Jeff

Les' explaination was perfectly clear in explaining the relationship between "scale" and "gauge".

[chieffan]

Thank you all for your input on this topic.  Les did a great job of explaining the difference between HOn3 and On30.  I understand what the two concepts are now.  Incidentally the confusion between scale and gauge is more common than one may think.  Thanks all for your input.   Rog

[Desertdweller]

Can anyone here help NM-Jeff out?

I don't know how else to explain it.

Les

[RAM]

I don't model On30, how ever I do know someone who does.  He gave a talk on it where He said, "you can use HO track, but you should remove every other tie".

[Jim Banner]

The story is a little more complicated than Les lets on.  The designations started off as gauges and only gauges until the NMRA got involved and decided they were scales too.  However, basic scale designations (N, H0, 0 etc.) are equal to gauge designations ONLY if you are talking standard gauge track.  That is, H0 gauge track (16.5 mm between the rails) represents 4'-8.5" real world, standard gauge track ONLY if the scale is H0 scale (3.5 mm = 1 foot, or 1/87 full size.) 

You can use H0 gauge track to represent other real world tack gauges, but it will no longer represent real world standard gauge track.  For example, let's say we want it to represent real world 30" gauge track using H0 gauge track.  The gauge of our H0 gauge track stays the same, 16.5 mm between the rails.  But the scale of the trains we run on it and the miniature world they run through are no longer H0 scale.  If you do the math, it is 1/4" = 1 foot, or 1/48 full size.) **  This scale is 0 scale.  To differentiate it from 0 scale running on scaled down real world standard gauge track, we add n30 to the scale to indicate we are modeling real world 30" gauge track.

Bottom line, when we talk about 0n30, we are mixing scale and gauge.  The 0 of 0n30 tells us the scale is 0 scale and the n30 of 0n30 tells us we are modeling 30" narrow gauge track.

Remember
- Gauge is the real world measurement of the distance between the rails.
- Scale is the ratio between model size and real world size.
- The twain shall never meet, unless the scale of the twain and the gauge of the twack are tied together by scaled down standard gauge twack.

Jim

**  If you do the math, you will find the scale is closer to 1/46.18 of full size, but close enough to let us use readily available H0 gauge track.

[richg]

Very good Jim. Even a caveman should be able to understand that. Yeah, I watch to many Geico commercials.

Rich

[Jerrys HO]

rich-

Your words are hurtful. I will not be at the doughnut social in the morning!

[richg]

rich-

Your words are hurtful. I will not be at the doughnut social in the morning!

lol. an extra donut for me. Love it.

Rich

[Ken G Price]

Is that an O or HO scale doughnut? 
And on what gauge plate does it rest on?

[NarrowMinded]

Me Just little dumb no big smart brain guy...

When some one asks me what scale my model trains are I just tell them ON30

When someone asks me what scale My bridge and water tower is I tell them ON30
(they were modeled after narrow gauge lines)my layout is ON30

Don't know what to call them now... Me go back cave now too tired chisling letters.

NM-Jeff

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Me go back cave now too tired chisling letters.

NM-Jeff

Try using a stick on a wet clay tablet. That's what I do. It's a lot easier! 

JB-Jeff