Out of the hobby for quite a while..need a little advice

[Old Railroader]

Hi folks, I have an old 4'x8' layout that I constructed with my dad as a youngster over 40 years ago. This setup is a pretty well established -- run by a DC powerpack with tons of wiring.  My dad passed away this past summer and am trying to get the railroad up and running again.
I've never had a steam locomotive and was thinking of purchasing a Bachmann Baldwin 2-8-0 in Nickel Plate Road markings in honor of my grandfather, who worked for that company many years ago.
I think I've figured out the basics of a DCC system, and with all my old equipment, at this point a conversion/modification just wouldn't be practical.
My questions are about the basics of operating a DCC/DC train on a DC only system.  Are there any gotchas I need to be aware of?  Are there any drawbacks?  How do all the "Bells and Whistles" (sound effects) etc. work on the DC only system? Thanks in advance... Jack

[RAM]

Let me just say that when DCC came in, they said all you need to do is disconnect the DC powerpack, and connect the DCC controller.  This may or maynot work for you, but I would try it.   I do not operater sound.

[Doneldon]

Old RR-

Welcome back to our great hobby. I think you'll be very excited about all the new things you can easily do with model trains now.

Most current decoders will permit you to operate a DCC loco on a DC layout; however, operation will often be better if the DCC decoder is removed and the jumpers installed.

DC Locomotives can have sound just like DCC locomotives. By and large, you won't be able to modify the sounds or program them unless you purchase a manufacturer-specific controller. These run about $25-50 street, and most are quite versatile. Absent such a dedicated controller, you will be limited to things like turning the bell on and off by quickly flicking the direction switch.

Incidentally, the Bachmann Connie is an excellent, well documented and reliable locomotive. You can do much worse than to buy one. Unfortunately, however, Bachmann does not offer a controller which allows you to access sound and lighting effects during DC operation.
                                                                                                                                                                             -- D

[CNE Runner]

Jack - After reading your original post, I decided to try a little experiment. I did not 'power up' my two DC handheld controllers (that is to say I left them wired to the power buss; but did not 'feed' them AC input power). Using alligator clips, I connected my MRC Prodigy Advanced DCC system directly to the layout's main power terminal strip (or buss). Next I placed all block switches in the 'A' position. Turned on the DCC unit and lo the Monks' Island Railway was in DCC mode. My Bachmann GE-45 Ton locomotive operated without a hitch...over the entire layout.

The Monks' Island Railway is only ~10' long by 15" at its widest so I don't know what would happen with a much larger layout. The point is that I was able to switch from the usual DC mode to DCC in approximately 15 minutes.

Hopefully this is of help in your situation.
Ray

[Old Railroader]

Thanks for all the advice everyone.  I'll research all the good tips, and see what direction things take me.  The reason I was reluctant to convert the system to DCC from DC was the work I thought it involved.
For example, there are insulating plastic rail-joiners everywhere that I assumed would need to come out.  The rails have already been landscaped with loose scale bedding, and it would just make a mess.  Secondly, I have about seven or eight DC locomotives (Tyco, Bachman, Atlas, to name a few) that would all have to be converted. I'm fairly handy with a soldering gun, but I think it would get a little cost prohibitive, and no two engines seem the same -- I'd need to do a lot of conversion research.  Finally, this was the system was the one that I built with my dad, and I'm a little reluctant to do renovations - the less change the better...but then again, maybe my dad would've gotten a kick out of al that DCC has to offer -- thanks once again...Jack

[mabloodhound]

Jack,
I think you'll find those plastic joiners can remain.   There are probably already wire drops for each section between the joiners and they will work fine with DCC.   Most likely there is a main two wire buss for your layout now, which is good.
The biggest area of concern may be the turnout and frog wiring/power.   But I bet you could be up and running with DCC fairly easy.

[jward]

like cne runner did, you can disconnect your dc power packs from the wiring, set all the block control switches to one position, and wire your dcc command station to that set of inputs to your block switches. no need to completely rewire your layout unless the wiring gives you problems. what he did on a 10 foot long shelf layout, i also did on a large l shaped layout measuring 13'6" a side with about 500 feet of track. as long as your wiring is heavy enough it will work fine.

your locomotives are another story. i would not consider the tycos and early bachmanns candidates for dcc conversion. sure you could do it, but these locomotives were generally poor performers and adding dcc to them will not improve that. save yourself some grief and buy a couple of new dcc equipped locomotives. you'll notice so much of an improvement in performance over the old ones you won't want to run them.

bachmann makes several inexpensive diesels with dcc. checque out the emd ft and gp40. those are good locomotives to get you started in dcc without alot of cost.

[Old Railroader]

Thanks again to all -- the advice has been excellent.  I probably wouldn't hesitate in completely switching the layout to a permanent DCC configuration, except for the fact that many of those inefficient old engines were puchased for me by my father over many birthdays and Christmases when I was very young, and have great senimental value. I'd hate to just put them up on a shelf.
I'm thinking out loud here -- but considering how easy it is switching from one configuration to another (as you all have shown me) -- I think it may be possible to have one master switch, which would change the entire layout from DC to DCC and back.  It just would require a complete changeout of engines and carefully repositioning all power switches prior to applying the master power switch...I'll have to do a little more research...

[Doneldon]

Old RR-

It's certainly possible to dual wire a layout for DC and DCC. Just be absolutely certain that there is NO possibility for contact between the systems. That could be a disaster. I'll even go so far as to recommend a center off or break-before-make switch so there isn't even the most minimal time the two systems are connected.

As for the older locos, well, yes, sometimes they are white elephants. They can be converted to DCC, but often only with a considerable investment of time and maybe money. Sentimental value can easily trump the time and energy matter. And it's important

Why not try to convert one or two of your Dad's favorites to see if you have an interest in doing more. If you do, you can work on others as time and other resources evolve. Be aware that you may well have to change motors to get a quality install. Older, open-frame motors aren't as responsive as modern can motors, and they may be connected to an electrically live frame. Can motors will solve some of that but there's often more to be done, especially with tender locos. Also, you may need a gear train and different connections between locos and tenders. Diesels eliminate the tender problem and you generally have more room indoors, at least with locos that have full-width hoods. If it turns out you don't enjoy the work you'll at least have an appreciation for the process which can inform your decision to either convert more yourself or have others converted for you.

Either way, good luck.
                                       -- D

[jward]

bear in mind that dcc locomotives will run on dc unless the analog conversion has been disabled. dc locomotives, especially those with cheap motors like what you have, may be damaged by prolonged exposure to the dcc signals.

since your layout is already wired for block control, it would be simple to park your dc locomotives on sidings and isolate those tracks from the dcc signal. may i suggest that you look into adding a turntable to your layout? the radial tracks are a good place to store dc locomotives when the dcc is on use. and a bunch of locomotives sitting around a turntable looks good as well.

[ebtnut]

The biggest issue with the old locos is that most of them use the engine frame and the motor frame as one side of the circuit path.  The hot side either had an insulated wiper on one side (tank engines) or used the tender as the other side.  In order to convert to DCC, you must fully isolate the motor so that power is only fed via the decoder.  Depending on the model, this can be a substantial undertaking.  It is sometimes easier to replace the motor with a can motor, but you then may need to make a new mount, and still make sure it is fully isolated. 

[pdleth]

About 40 years ago my brother and I  built a large dc layout in his basement. When we went to DCC all we did was add another toggle switch to the control panel, one side was for DC the other was DCC so that they could not  used together. the only thing that is DC on DCC is the power to the switch master turnout motors