What is the value of my Montreal Canadiens Bachmann 10 pieces set ?

[Luxocar]

Model: 071212-071224
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[mhampton]

To a collector who is not a Canadiens fan, next to nothing.
To a collector who is a Canadiens fan, probably no more than $25-$30.
To most modellers, probably about the same as the non-fan collector.
The bottom line is that it isn't the pot of gold you were probably hoping for.

[Doneldon]

Is it just crabby old me or are others offended by people who come
on the board just to see if some train item they picked up is worth a
million dollars?
                         -- D

[Jim Banner]

It used to be just Lionel.  I don't know how many times I have had people tell me that they have a very valuable train worth hundreds and hundreds of dollars because it was a Lionel.  Then they would drag out some scared up plastic bodied thing from the 60's with pieces broken off or missing, chipped wheel flanges from being dropped on the floor, and a mechanism that seized up tight years ago.  When you asked them how they knew it was worth so much, the typical answer was that someone told them that they read somewhere that a guy found a Lionel engine in his attic and sold it for that much.  When you tried to explain that just as General Motors made everything from Cadillacs to Envoys, so Lionel made everything from scale Hudsons to plastic 2-4-2's.  The usual response was that they would never sell it for less than the hundreds they thought it was worth.  Fortunately, they rarely if ever asked me what I thought it was worth.  I would have hated to disillusion them by telling them it might be worth $5 for parts.

I think today the story about finding a valuable old train in the attic (basement, garage, closet etc.) has been told so many times, including on eBay, that there are huge numbers of people who now believe ANY old train just has to be valuable.  Wouldn't it be nice if that were so.

Jim

[Woody Elmore]

I love the ads in Ebay that begin with "vintage" or "rare." I have a fondness for old Varney trains - one of my first HO engines was an "Old Lady." Varney produced thoise things in the thousands plus they were later made by Life Like. In their later days they had cheap motors, bad zamac castings and generally weren't worth the tinkering effort. Yet I see ads for these engines all the time claimning them to be vintage or mint. The folks who seriously collect Varney, and I suppose there are a few, will already have an Old Lady or Casey Jones in their collection.

As for old Lionel, I saw a set here recently at a local garage sale. The people had a tag on it for the set - $100. I'm not a Lionel expert but the trucks were plastic and the freight cars had road names from the seventies and eighties. These were some of the cars from the bad years. The track was rusted, the transformer was a cheapie and generally the whole box should have been consigned to a dumpster. The guy told me that they were his and his brother's trains and they had them priced at a local antque store. When I asked him the dealer's expertise with Lionel Trains, he didn't know.

As for the Bachmann Canadiens train, there may be a hockey collector out there who would like the set. Down here, where we have the Rangers, Islanders and Devils, most people would like to stomp on them!

[Doneldon]

Jim, Woody-

I know exactly what you mean. People just don't realize than with very, very few exceptions, the only valuable old trains are the ones which were pricey in the first place (i.e., NOT cheapola cast plastic) and which are essentially new in the unmarked original box. There is precious little such merchandise so the sad fact is that almost all of those fortune in the attic stories are just urban legend.
                                                                                                              -- D

[jward]

to make matters worse, there are a few companies out there selling limited edition sets as "heirloom quality" which totally misrepresents what you are buying. people wind up paying top dollar for a subscription to the cars in the set, pay top dollar, then get mad when they find out what they have is not worth anywhere near what they paid for it.....

[Doneldon]

jward-

My observation, in regards to model trains at least, it that the larger the print for "Heirloom Quality," the more plastic is used, the more shlocky bright metal accents are applied and the less actual quality is built in. Just check out the Thomas Kinkead, Painter of Light monstrosities if you doubt my contention.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             -- D

[jward]

i agree.

i've noticed manufacturers of quality locomotives and cars don't advertise "heirloom quality" they tout skew wound motors, blackened metal wheels, etc.

[NarrowMinded]

No donaldon, it's not just crabby ol' you, I am not offended so much as slightly annoyed, in another recent post I mentioned DTBS  "Dusty Train Box Syndrome"

I think I become a little annoyed because of the ever so slight insinuation that I am lying, wrong or some how trying to low ball people for my own benefit when I tell them that their recent garage sell purchase is not their next house payment or down payment on the Ferrari they have always wanted.

Similar to Jim's comment I always get "a friend of a friend of mine found a train in a trash can that was worth seven thousand gazillion Billion dollars".



NM-Jeff

[Doneldon]

I think I become a little annoyed because of the ever so slight insinuation that I am lying, wrong or some how trying to low ball people for my own benefit when I tell them that their recent garage sell purchase is not their next house payment or down payment on the Ferrari they have always wanted.

Narrow-

Yes, you're right about that, but it's kind of amazing if you analyze it. People with so little basis to know what their trains are worth that they have to ask strangers on here what they're worth are then skeptical of the low prices we cite! If they already know so much why are they asking us???
                                                                                                                                                                                                -- D

[rogertra]

to make matters worse, there are a few companies out there selling limited edition sets as "heirloom quality" which totally misrepresents what you are buying. people wind up paying top dollar for a subscription to the cars in the set, pay top dollar, then get mad when they find out what they have is not worth anywhere near what they paid for it.....

Can you say "Franklin Mint"?

[Doneldon]

Roger-

The Franklin Mint is certainly one of the outfits we're talking about but not the only one. In fact,  think the entire collectibles market is crammed with companies selling collectibles which are only collectible because their marketing department has named them so. Part of the scam is that the so-called collectibles are sold as part of a set with the implication that you only have something worthwhile if the entire set is collected. I see ads for all kinds of this junk, with trains being a small part of the industry. There are collector plates of every variety, coin sets, figurines, baseball stadium models in "cold cast porcelain," glass animals, Christmas tree ornaments,  famous guns, all sorts of automobilia, commemorative silver items, military unit insignias, farm implements, enough Christmas merchandise to bury what's left of the polar ice cap and hundreds more categories. My sense is that most of the people who collect these things believe they really have valuable items, due either to the price of the items them selves (often highly inflated) or the manufacturer's reputation. Just about all of the top glass, silver and china companies have series. Bing and Grondahl and Royal Copenhagen started the craze many years ago and they continue to sell the merchandise. Older B&G and RC can be very pricey but I doubt if the newer ones increase very fast. The same can be said for early entrants Avon and Jim Beam. I also think these collectors get a strain of the Dusty Attic Find Flu, a condition closely related to Jeff's Dusty Train Box Syndrome, and just as difficult to cure. All someone has to hear about is an old Hummel piece that sold for $500 or a china beer stein from a 1920s monthly china club which sold for the same money and they rush out to find treasures in the basement, garage or a nearby yard sale. It's crazy.

But don't get me wrong. Much of the collectible merchandise is indeed well made, utile and a legitimate purchase. It only gets bad when the merchandise is represented as something which will (rapidly) appreciate in value or when it's just plain junk. I purchased a set of Haviland Limoges 12 Days of Christmas plates many years ago, like 1969-1980, because I liked them and figured They'd be fun for holiday time desserts. And they are. Are they valuable today? Well, you'd have to pay more for most of them than I paid for them, but not as much more as inflation would predict. The first year plate has increased a good deal beyond inflation, and to a lesser extent the second year, but the whole set is only worth a little more than I paid, plus inflation. As an investment it sure is a nice set of plates for holiday desserts. And that's why I purchased them and use them. It's not because I was seduced by some advertised implication that I'd be able to retire on them. So I'm a lot happier with my plates than I'd be with them as an investment.

My patience runs out at what seems like deliberately misleading advertising which exploits people' dreams of finding a fortune and a natural human urge to complete an unfinished set. There is so much of such junk out there that it makes me want to scream. To me it's no different than the *#>$^= state lotteries which exploit the same child-like belief in a miracle. Which reminds me: Do you know that state lotteries pay out a lower proportion of the money bet as prizes than the mob numbers rackets used to pay out to their players? That says a lot.
                                                                                                                            -- D

[depmuht]

My belief is an item is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. If you are honest or dishonest with the advertising.

[Pacific Northern]

I recently attended a garage sale and spotted what I thought was a very dirty (I mean caked on dirt) old metal Tyco steam engine. 

I almost passed on it, I was surprised at just how heavy the old metal steamer was and might still be worth buying if it was cheap.

I bought the engine and took it home. A few days later I decided I would try cleaning the old engine and see if I might even get it working.  I was surprised at how much of the dirt was coming off in small clumps. As I washed the engine with a hand brush I noted on the bottom of the engine it was stamped "Japan". It cleaned up very well and that was when I discovered it was actually a brass engine.

I found out that it was from a manufacturer who was considered one of the best of the Japanese brass manufacturers. It is considered to be a very good find. I was not given a value but it is indeed a collectible engine of very good quality and not an old Tyco that I had thought it to be.