My first post here....

[BachSetCollector74]

Hello all, I am brand new to trains, and I thought this would be a great place to attempt to learn some basic information, esp since I took a particular liking to Bachmann train sets....

I went to an estate sell back on the 21st of October. A Dr. Rueff of 40 years of vintage toy collecting past on a couple of years back, and his wife most recently. Anyhow, the sisters an brothers decided to sell the home and all its contents, and I had the good fortune to get to go in the basement an scope out everything a month before the sell, as one of the sons works with one of my life long friends. This basement is basically two thousand square feet of amazing vintage toys, that took forty years to accumulate, including many trains, and sets....

I normally collect many different vintage toys from my childhood, via mostly stuff like Star wars and G.I.Joe, being born in 1974. I buy it, hold an collect for a while, then pass on to someone else, an try to at least break even while doing so, if not make a little something, mostly on eBay....

Anyhow, to cut too the chase, I grabbed a Lionel 1977 Cargo King trains n truckin set, still mint in box, just missing two buildings. It had been shrink wrapped by the meticulous doctor, and I am going by his note he left on it in upper corner. I also grabbed a Bachmann Old Tyme village express set from 1995, still mint in box, and a 85 piece King of the rail series Santa Fe Tornado set, which I can't find any information on, it appears rare....

I have them all listed on eBay, as they are all sealed, but I opened a can of buying worms, which often happens with me, and I have since added a nice blue Royal Scot complete mint Bachmann set, which seems to have been manufactured between 1985-89. A great price I got it for at 76 bucks seems like, being mint in box and only test run. I have also added what appears to be a rare set from 1976, via the old west Train robbery set. It is very unique, with a trap door and robbers, gold, etc....

These sets are both close to mint according to dealer, and I plan to have a little fun an set them up an run a bit....

I also have a couple more Lionel trains, via a 1980 O gauge Union Pacific Berkshire, real close to mint an nice box. And finally a 1966 Lionel basic set, which turned out real nice dsiplay train, box solid with heavy cover wear, but insert part real solid, with all the track an transformer and wires. Alas, I could not get it to run, even though I could hear the transformer hummmm when I plugged it in....

Any help or suggestions much appreciated.  I had a basic Lionel set as a child, a gift from a late grand father, and this new discovery has been a bit of a trip back in time of sorts, via long lost memories.....

Lastly, I have taken a big interest in these vintage Bachmann sets, many of which I have on the ol wishlist. The Orient Express, The Flying Scot, and the M.A.S.H. train to name a few. Sorry for the rant, hope everyone has a great Halloween!!!!

[ForThemPanzerz]

from what i have heard is that all earlier bachmann trainsets where quiet nice at the time but every 5yrs it seams like they update everything and many of their older things like the 4-4-0s and the f series diesels are not worth as much as you think because they were heavily mass produced and at flea markets and swap meets you can find whole boxes full of these listed at $10 each because they still make them in much better running condition. most of the time any plastic model train that was built between 1960 and 1990 lose price every year. if you have the money and enjoy trains enough you might try collecting Lionel tin plate or brass trains because they are collectors items and some model railroaders use them with upgrades some of the most collectible i think is pacific fast mail or if you don't have the money but want to collect something that people would buy i would suggest mdc/roundhouse, ahm, and pocher. the roundhouse shays are especially popular because people often but them to kitbash them. and also welcome to the hobby if you want the best information i would suggest going to a trainshow or swap meet

[BachSetCollector74]

Thanks Mr. Shay, that is some great info....

I can see major difference in detail, design, etc., when you compare a small plastic HO, beside the O gauge Lionel Union pacific Berkshire. For example, the Berk is made of die-cast, has much detail, rail, working lights, smoke, magnetic traction, etc....

Too address some of your points, I find it odd that the newer items, is worth more, an the older stuff, looses value as it ages, which is opposite as most collectibles. Obviously, being made of plastic, I figure these sets loose value fast, esp once the seal is broken....

I am gonna do some searches on the items you suggest.....

Could someone help me understand scale better, like what does HO stand for, or  N, O, etc.? I am sure that is  areal dumb question, but one has to start somewhere....

Finally, I don't mind if the vintage sets are not worth that much because if I can get them for 50 to 75, an perhaps sell at 100 to 150, or even break even worst case after I have displayed a bit, or slightly ran for a bit of fun, well that is all fine. I make a little extra here an there, but certainly not getting rich, an do it more for the collector in me than anything....

I would really love to find a train swap meet, where I could find these sets for 10 or 20 bucks a set, that would be great. I live about 30 minutes west of University of T.N. campus in a small town called Lenoir city. So if anyone lives in my neck of the woods, and knows of anything like that in my area, much appreciated once again....

[Woody Elmore]

The point is that Bachmann trains were never meant to be "collectibles." They were train sets intended for a particular market. There are not hundreds of Bachmann collectors with barns filled with Bachmann trains.

There are Tyco collectors who collect Tyco trains because they are reminded of their childhood. Tyco trains were made for decades and there are literally tens of thousands out there. Tyco collectors collect for the fun of it, not to make any money.

If you want to collect trains try Lionel or American Flyer. Lionel made after the war up until they stopped production in the sixties are the ones to look for.  Another big collectible item is the brass locomotive. Prices have dropped on a lot of these due to the economy and the fact that many newer models have been made in plastic and are often superior to the brass version.

I suppose you could start collecting Bachmann sets. Just remember that at the end of the day you'll not get much of a return. They are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them.

[BachSetCollector74]

More great information, thanks Woody!

I do love the post war Lionel's and I also like the American Flyers. What a great name American Flyer is, reminds me so much of an old America that has long since faded away. I think the red wagons they made, is what makes that name such a great piece of historical Americana. I am a big fan of the Royal blue American flyer train, as one sold the other day on eBay, at just over 400, and it had all the cars, what a gem!

Finally, I like your points about the brass trains an economy. It sure seems like some of these sets are cheaper then what they would be in better times. Heck, I worry so much over the economy, I stash away gold an silver coins as well, but the collector in me keeps me buying items like vintage trains....

No different then buying land right now when it is dirt cheap, hoping for better days. I think one could look at many of these great trains in the same light, obviously on a much smaller scale. Plus, an engine an coal car here, an a train set there, they add up fast....

Finally, in time I think all things have the potential to become collectible, just not when there is 100,000's of that particular item  easily accessed in swap meets or eBay. Time is the great equalizer, I just may be dust again myself before that kicks in, lol. Take care all, an thanks so much for the info....

[BachSetCollector74]

I will also add, that many of those older Bachmann sets I mentioned, like the Royal or Flying Scot, the Orient Express, Royal castle (company Life Like), the M.A.S.H., and old train robbery sets, all seem to be very hard to find on eBay, which made me think the numbers were low. And the print historical inserts on the history of each train sets, makes them appear collectible to me at least.....

Now then, just because there is only one example for sale at any one given time on eBay, certainly is not enough to say that item is ULTRA RARE. But hey, less competition on any item if you are the only one selling it, gives you an advantage IM amatuer O, over the guy selling a train where I can find 35 just like it from other dealers....

[jward]

one point that i don't think anybody has touched upon here, that drasticly affects the value of the older trains is what the company's direction was at the time. even by the standards of the 1970s and especially the 1980s, train sets like those made by bachmann, ahm and tyco were low quality. as one who grew up in the 1970s, i can tell you that most stores stocked train sets around the christmas season, flooding the market. after christmas, the train sets and cars were marked down to rock bottom. with all the modifications that had to be done to get those cars to perform up to the standards of, say, an athearn car the after christmas sales were the only times it made sense to purchase them. and most of the diesel locomotives ran so poorly that it wasn't even worth the time to work on them.

this started to change in the late 1980s with the bachmann spectrum line. later the freight and passenger cars were also upgraded too. these are the silver series cars, and even your most basic bachmann train set equipment to-day runs great without modification. in fact, it probably runs better then the best stuff from the 1970s. for this reason, alot of us stay away from the older train sets.

so.....if the collectors are interested in lionel or brass, and the serious model railroaders aren't interested either. what market is there for the older sets other than as a cheap way into the hobby, something to get you started that will eventually be replaced by much better equipment. or as display items on a shelf......

[Jerrys HO]

BSC74

Here is a set I just purchased off of e-bay. To me it's priceless, to others not as I picked it up from the seller for $35. Bachmann produced this set as a safety award for the Pittsburgh Division of NS.











Jerry

[NarrowMinded]

Hi,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Trains, It seem you may be affected by DTB Syndrome, that's "DUSTY TRAIN BOX" this syndrome stems from the very few cases where someone has found a really collectable train in the attic or basement, some how this has translated in to somewhat of an urban legend that just about every model train that has not seen the light of day in a couple years is some how worth it's weight in gold.

Please do some research before you spend your hard earned money, I have had countless non-train friends rush to my house straight from a garage sale with what they thought was their next house payment, only to be disappointed and even think I was lying so I could buy it from them for cheap. 

Most old trains are like most old toys "Cool" to those who played with them as a kid but not worth that much because theres not much of a market for them, unless you find the right, pigeon err... I mean Person...


NM-Jeff

[jward]

having lived along the pittsburgh division, and worked it for 3 1/2 years, i wouldn't mind having one of those sets. i have an ns safety award, a pocket knife that if you carried while on duty would violate ns's weapons policy. (wonder what genius thought that one up?) but i was unaware of the train set.

i find the choice of caboose interesting, bachmann makes a caboose that is similar to ones run by ns predecessors wabash and n&w, which surely lasted into the ns era, and the recent northeastern style caboose was also used by n&w into the ns era. as far as i know, ns never used the style of caboose in the set.

overall, though, they did a nice job. 4271 is true to the prototype except for the pittsburgh division logo, and the real one looks every bit as good as the model.

[Jerrys HO]

jward

I've seen sets for athletic sports and find it great if you love sports ( which I do).
Finding one that actually was an award for a RR division I thought was unique and special. If the seller actually worked for NS I just wondered why would one give it up?
All the boxes have their own product#  and Pitt. Div. stamped on the boxes by Bachmann. The engine is not marked DCC (have not checked yet) but if it's not it will be as I don't know if you recall the Sante Fe that I was going to repaint well that never happened yet so I believe I will swap shell's. Maybe make a sound dummy with the other.
The set is a one of kind to me and will be treasured. Even though it probably has no   big dollar value except to me.

Jerry

Jerry

[BachSetCollector74]

Well guys, this is gonna be a great place for information, thanks all for chiming in.

DTB sydrome ,that is great you all have a term for it, and I fit right  into that cat for sure, lol. I would have thought for sure that Old Tyme train set would be worth a 100 at least, and I paid 25 bucks for it. Crazy how much I have learned just in a couple weeks since that estate sell. There is another sell on the 4th, as only 20% of this guys collection could be priced an fit upstairs last sale. I will be much more knowledgeable what trains to go after this time....

I did have someone just ask me if I accept CC's and they want to know if I can ship the Old Tyme Bachmann set from 1995 asap. I have it listed at 90 bucks, an free shipping. After eBay, shipping, paypal, I will be lucky to make anything at all, but very happy to have brought it back into circulation, so as someone who wants it can give it a good home....

I love that new Pitt train as well Jerry, nice score, great price! Another fine example, of one mans junk is another man's treasure. Even though that set is far from junk, but you know what I mean, as as you said it is priceless to you, and that is all that matters in the end....

[NarrowMinded]

Do some research on Z-scale marklin Locomotives, I find them at estate sales on occasion,  I also built a small layout for a guy that bought a box full of these tiny $400 locomotive for $10.00 again a rare instance, these little loco's are pricey to begin with and in good condition have good resale value.

I'll say again This is a rare instance and the reason it was such a find is because they are expensive.

NM-Jeff

What ever you do have fun doing it!

[RAM]

 Lionel O gauge is nice.  Lionel O27 is smaller and cheaper than O gauge, and stay away from Lionel HO.  OK, some of Lionel HO is nice, but you better know what you are getting.

[BachSetCollector74]

I look for good deals on these Bachmann sets, and I also see the auctions end around 60 total like a Golden spike set with 100 pieces which just ended at 60 bucks. The older vintage set unopened and it went for 40, an 20 more freight. So I figure if that person wanted to put it up with a buy it now, I saw a similar with 125 pieces listed at 150 (15 more for shipping) and it was the only other one I could fine, of the older version anyway. Try an double their money, good luck with that eh....

So I had already confirmed that they were not worth that much but smalls add up. Someone may toss out $150, maybe $200 for something that rare around Christmas perhaps. So just like the guys that bid on those storage lockers, they set limits. If they see $1000 dollars worth of tools, $500 is their top bid....

Same with me, as 75 or so is about my max to spend on the older Bachmann sets in question that I think may bring 125 to 150. Unless it is again really rare and unique, in which case I may go as high as $100 to $125. I figure in most cases I can always at least break even if I set limits an stay under them....

Like one of these rare M.A.S.H. sets I am after. Starting bid $160, and $27.50 more for freight. Too high for me, but if it ends with no bids, I may toss him an offer, less then what his starting bid is. That is how I often get my items, asking after no one else bids, and offer a lower, but fair price....