19th Century motive power

[on30gn15]

Count me in as desiring 19th century, 1850-1870 power and rolling stock.

Even though actual 1850s 4-4-0 locos couldn't pull all that much I wouldn't mind having tender motor and a good chunk of lead over drivers for better tractive effort.

[CNE Runner]

It seems to me that there must be a considerable (virtually untapped) market for locomotives and rolling stock of the mid-to-late 19th century. A look through George B. Abdill's A Locomotive Engineer's Album [Superior Publishing, 1965] will illustrate the enormous number of locomotives produced during the 19th century. Some of the most beautiful locomotives (in my humble opinion) were constructed by such manufacturers as: Schenectady, Rhode Island Locomotive Works, Eddie, Baldwin, etc...to name but a few.

The problem seems to be a tremendous number of engine manufacturers that produced units throughout the 19th century that has been too long ignored by the model railroad manufacturers; and rolling stock that is just about unavailable in the model market today (excepting some craftsman kits). [Yes, I know there are resin models of some of these cars; but resin can be a rather difficult medium to work with. The Roundhouse series of cars really depict the early years of the 20th century...they are too large for the 19th century AND feature air brakes (although the parts could be left off - back dating the model).]

When it is all said, and done, it comes down to simple economics. How many modelers are willing to spend their hard-earned dollars (pounds/euros/yen) on this segment of American railroading? If so, don't you think at least one of the major manufacturers would explore this market?

I am easily pleased: All I wish for is a good running American 4-4-0 (from, say, 1855 - 1880) that could be detailed/decorated for any one of the plethora of railroads that existed throughout the mid-to-late 1800s (makers such as: Danford, Cooke; Grant; Schenectady; Brooks). Is there a more beautiful locomotive than #3 of the Oil Creek & Allegheny Railroad [Baldwin circa 1870]?

Ray

[on30gn15]

Are some early ones it would be nice to have in G, but right now don't have the money anyway.

An early Mogul to go with the HO old time 4-4-0 would be nice.

Read somewhere sometime that a lot of the 1850-1860 engines only weighed about 25 tons. And with the little boilers on General and Texas era locos a locomotive mounted motor would have to be on the order of an N scale motor.

What kind of gearing would it take to get enough torque on HO drivers?

[on30gn15]

I am easily pleased: All I wish for is a good running American 4-4-0 (from, say, 1855 - 1880) that could be detailed/decorated for any one of the plethora of railroads that existed throughout the mid-to-late 1800s (makers such as: Danford, Cooke; Grant; Schenectady; Brooks). Is there a more beautiful locomotive than #3 of the Oil Creek & Allegheny Railroad [Baldwin circa 1870]?

would be nice to have one which could be kitbashed in to early PRR styles before the Belpaire firebox.
Don't know if they still do but Precision Scale made a suitable PRR style cab in both brass and plastic. I used the plastic one but brass would add a hair more weight.

Plenty of early PRR 4-4-0 photos here http://www.northeast.railfan.net/prr_steam2.html

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Some of the most beautiful locomotives (in my humble opinion) were constructed by such manufacturers as: Schenectady, Rhode Island Locomotive Works, Eddie, Baldwin, etc...to name but a few.

I sure won't disagree, just specifically add the Mason works to the list. 

Is there a more beautiful locomotive than #3 of the Oil Creek & Allegheny Railroad [Baldwin circa 1870]?

Have you got a link to a pic?

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I once took a dremel to my old Mantua General and back dated it(took alot of work!)it turned out nice looking after I used numerous brass castings, I also removed the Mantua tender and replaced it with a scratch built one and the end result was a unpowered engine that looked great!

Did you give it a third dome and a slatted "chicken-coop" pilot?

[NWsteam]

I model the Norfolk and Western in the early 50's with "modern" steam. I have a rule to curb spending that I will only buy items that fit my era/locale. I think I would make an exception for a good 4-4-0. There is just something about the over the top decoration and just the overall look is fantastic. In short...I'd buy.

-Brad

[CNE Runner]

Wow, it is gratifying to see so many modelers interested in 19th century railroading. Who knows; maybe one of the manufacturers will take the 'plunge' and come out with a line of period locomotives and rolling stock.

Jeff - I got the information/picture of the Oil Creek & Allegheny Railroad's #3 from George B. Abdill's book A Locomotive Engineer's Album (1965). Here is a copy of the picture to which I was referring:

Quoting from the caption: "...A classic example of the lovely 4-4-0 is this diamond-stacked American built by Baldwin in April of 1870 as No. 2 of the Oil Creek & Allegheny Railroad, bearing shop number 2127..."

'Gotta love the straight lines and uncomplicated running gear. Abdill's book is filled with photographs of 'lovely' locomotives.

Enjoy,
Ray

[ForThemPanzerz]

yes it is nice to see many early era railroaders. my layout may take place in the mid 30s but my railroads going to be a railroad that take place in western colorado but it will have only 2 moderatly new shays. i would like to see more early rolling stock and a new 2 truck shay from bachmann to go with my 3 trucks. my railroad usally uses old D&RG cars before they started buying new rollingstock.

[Royce Wilson]

The General that I back dated has since been sold, but yes it was built to war standards with a third dome, and ankle rail. I had to scratch build the pilot. If I had to do all over again I think I would use one of those danged new casting machines to reproduce the parts. heck even the stack had to be redone.
There is a gentleman that is producing the decals for that era that are nice and belive me the paint and decals makes or breaks a nice model.

Royce

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Jeff - I got the information/picture of the Oil Creek & Allegheny Railroad's #3 from George B. Abdill's book A Locomotive Engineer's Album (1965).

Thanks! I've got the book. 

In fact, I've got all of Abdill's books.    I agree, they are filled with photos of "lovely" locomotives. 

The General that I back dated has since been sold, but yes it was built to war standards with a third dome, and ankle rail. I had to scratch build the pilot. If I had to do all over again I think I would use one of those danged new casting machines to reproduce the parts. heck even the stack had to be redone.
There is a gentleman that is producing the decals for that era that are nice and belive me the paint and decals makes or breaks a nice model.

Royce

Thanks! I'm sure the engine looked really sharp when you were finished with the rebuild! 

[on30gn15]

Hey, do any of y'all know about this Yahoo Group?
I'm in it.
There are a lot of people in there who know a lot of stuff, or where to find it.
And some very good modeling.
Actually, a lot of good modeling.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarlyRail/

EarlyRail · The Early Rail modeling group.

Description

Are you interested in modeling early railroads? This list includes railroads both in and outside of the USA. The start of World War 1 is the general cut-off date for this list.

Possible topics include: motive power, rolling stock, broad gauge, narrow gauge, different track styles, early trolleys and interurbans, US Civil war era, structures and much more.

Where do I get horses in my scale? How about people in the right costume? What scale can I find the most stuff in?

The Early Rail Model Kits Cooperative, our kit-creating special interest group is here:

ER_Kits

If you're interested in slightly later period railroading as well, there's a group for that at:

1914to1940RRing

NOTE: Due to automated spambots, new members will need to send a message to make it clear they're a real person interested in trains. ADMIN. NOTE: Somewhere along the way, I seem to have become the owner (or at least co-owner) of this list, indicated by the blue crown symbol next to my name. So I may be only one approving membership. If so, please be patient, I will get to it. Also, if a msg you post doesn't show up right away, your membership is probably set to needing msg approval, under old system. I'll approve apropriate msgs ASAP, and re-set your msg setting. Thanks. Jim Flynn

[Terry Toenges]

I have all (I think) of Abdill's books, too. They are great.for all the pics of 19th century locos.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I have all (I think) of Abdill's books, too. They are great.for all the pics of 19th century locos.

His book on Civil War railroads is a must-have for anyone interested in locomotives of the 1850s and early 1860s. I seem to remember pictures of some engines that might even go back to the 1840s.

The Civil War book has photos of some Mason engines that, I think, are well among the most beautiful locomotives ever built.

[on30gn15]

Speaking of Mason locos, http://www.heimburgerhouse.com/railfan_books_I-P/Mason-steam-locos.php

Mason Steam Locomotives
By Arthur W. Wallace         

Melodies, cast and wrought in metal - William Mason's beautiful steam locomotives were considered the finest in form and function, the "Rolls Royces" of the day. More than 700 of these locomotives were built at the Taunton, Massachusetts factory beginning in 1853. After 50 years of research, Art Wallace brings the complete Mason locomotive story to light. In detailed text and nearly 200 photographs and illustrations, Mason's handiwork comes to life in this rich historical volume. From American Standard 4-4-0s to 4-6-0s and double-truck 0-6-6Ts and 2-8-6T's, Mason locomotives have captured the eye of railfans, engineers and historians for decades. Now you can read the fascinating story and see the products that made Mason famous. Thirteen detailed chapters, 192 pages, 8-1/2 x 11" smyth-sewn hardbound; nearly 200 rare historical black and white photographs; dustjacket by noted artist Gil Bennett.

Price: $53.95