A question about switch machines

[pacchardon]

I have had my first layout up and running 3 months now. During that time I have observed that if one flips a remote switch machine back and forth a few times quickly the response of the switch machine seems to get weaker and weaker. It seems to recover if left alone for a few seconds. My understanding is that remote switch machines utilize two solenoids. I am guessing that by flipping it back and forth quickly, the solenoids not being given enough time for the magnetic fields to dissipate and are working against each other until they do. Is my guess correct or am I seeing the beginning of some kind of problem?

[poliss]

If you are using a CDU to power the switch machines then it is just taking time to recharge.
Try not to flip the switches back and forth quickly as it is possible that you will damage them.

[Jim Banner]

I am going to assume you are NOT using a capacitor discharge unit to throw your switches and that you ARE using ac from the auxiliary terminals of a power pack.  With ac, the soft iron slug that is attracted to the electromagnets gets demagnetized every time the switch is thrown.  With dc, it might retain some magnetism.  The copper solenoid coils and brass or plastic forms they are wound on are non-magnetic.

I suspect that what you are seeing is the effects of heating the solenoids.  To get enough magnetic field in a small enough space, the design requires large currents.  This is why holding down the control button will quickly damage a dual solenoid switch machine.  By flipping the machine back and forth several times in quick succession, the solenoid coils heat up.  And as you heat the copper wire, its resistance goes up, reducing the current through it, reducing its magnetic force, and reducing the force with which the machine throws the switch.

What you describe is not the beginning of a problem unless one of these days, you flip the machine back and forth too many times, it gets too hot, and melts internally.

Jim

[pacchardon]

I guess I needed to be more specific. I am using Atlas remote turnouts with the switch machines and button control boxes that come with them and powering it with the AC on a Bachmann controller. I don't make a habit of switching it back a forth. I did it once in an 'I am about to have a train wreck' moment and noticed the diminished response. I duplicated it a few times with the various switch machines on the layout. Nothing seems to damaged and will avoid doing so again.
Thanks
Paul

[richg]

If you want "snappy" turnout machine action, get a Circuitron Snapper on line or from a LHS.
Connect the AC to the input and output to the switch machine buss. So easy a Caveman can do it.
It is also called a CDU.

Read the instruction  sheet before you throw the sheet away or lose it.

Rich

[Jim Banner]

Up here in Canada, a lot more than 1% of the switches are remotely operated.  I suspect that is driven by costs in the winter.  It is expensive to send a man out to the middle of nowhere to chip and sweep ice and snow out of points and frogs, especially when you have to do it every hour or two in a blizzard.  It is even more expensive to stop 150 car freights while the enginemen flip coins to see who will spend the next half hour clearing a switch, and then another one three miles down the line.  The wiring is already there to control switch operators digitally from up to 1000 kilometers away and power is already there for the signals, so the only added cost is for the switch heaters and the propane to run them.  Manually thrown switches are still in use in flat yards, especially those where they use belt packs for train control, and for urban sidings where a switcher might occasionally drop a few cars.  Out on the high iron, about all you see is switch heaters but no switch stands.

In another 10 or 15 years, we might reach the point where the only really accurate way to model a Canadian railway will be to have all switches electrically controlled by a friend in another city two provinces away.  And maybe 10 years after that, your friend two provinces over will also be operating your trains.  We have already reduced crew sizes from 5 in steam days to 4 then 3, and now 2 on long hauls and 1 on flat switching.  On some special trains, the Vancouver Sky Train for example, there is no crew on board, nor has there been for more than 20 years.  How long will it be before all trains are operated like horizontal elevators?  When was the last time you rode an elevator that had an operator?

Jim 

[NarrowMinded]

Jim.

Just today I rode on an elevator with an operator... ME! wouldn't move until I pushed the buttons.

I do agree with what you are saying though, On a stop over this week in Houston Texas I had to change planes, to get from one terminal to another I boarded a completely automated train/tram.

So maybe in the future the only way to really model  accurately is to program your schedules into a computer and press go.

NM-Jeff

[richg]

I quit using switch machines many years ago.  Most railroads thow 99% of them by hand, so do I but I do 100%.

PF

Most railroads do not throw them by hand. I cannot visualize Amtrak or CSX where I live in the NE USA stopping to hand throw a turnout. Commuter rail or subways either.

Rich

[richg]

This might help. Many links to do research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralized_traffic_control

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_switch

A lot will depend on the RR and location in the USA. Try a Google search for your area. MIght take some looking and asking the correct question, different words with CTC.

Rich

[NarrowMinded]

Florynow,
I spent last week in Jackson MS. I saw some switch stands at sidings and I think there were some at a small yard I saw on the way to that Big Bass pro shop.

Darn It! as I wrote the above it reminded me I forgot to check to see if they had any of the large G Scale BPS sets DARN DARN DARN!


NM-Jeff

[richg]

I had no idea your level of experience when I posted the links.

"Most railroads thow 99% of them by hand,"

That is what I noticed when I answered.

Rich

[Jim Banner]

florynow,

I had no beef with how you model.  In fact I too prefer manual switching.  My newest layout is set in 1961, a time when most switches were hand thrown.  My oldest layout, which is the one I am presently building, is set in about 1910 and uses a number of motorized switches only because it is designed to run unattended at train shows.  They may be motorized, but many of the turnouts are stub switches to reflect the railway's 1880's origin.  The railway also features working ball signals, but that is another story.

Jim