Small layout

[burnbabyburn]

Hey guys! Been reading/lurking for a while. I am just about to get started with my very first model train...but as a newbie, I could use some help. For my first layout, I would like to go with HO scale, and have a track radius of no more than 15"...30" diameter. I have limited space and this would be perfect. If it is a little more, I could handle it though. I was also thinking about the total track to be 30" X about 90". Just want to start with an oval. Again, a little bit different size smaller or bigger wouldn't really matter.
Also, can I get this size of a track layout in any kind of a kit, or do you have to buy it individually? Is there a certain kind of track that would enable me to have the 15' radius...and so on. I would prefer to buy it in a starter kit, but am not sure it is available like that. I am very new to all this so please be gentle with me.

Thanks!
Burnbabyburn in Nova Scotia

[jward]

if you can find the extra room. i'd go with the standard 18" radius curves. 15"r  curves are too sharp to work well with most cars and locomotives. 18"r will allow you to run medium sized steam locomotives like the 2-8-0, 4 axle diesels like the gp40 or ft, and cars up to 55' in length. 15"r will restrict you to small locomotives (44ton, 0-6-0 or tank engines) and cars under 40'

if you really must use 15" or smaller curves maybe you should run n scale

[ACY]

No train sets that I know of include 15" radius because it is too small for most locomotive and rolling stock, additionally most locos that run on 15" radius aren't included in train sets.

[burnbabyburn]

Ok...guess that's why I couldn't find any with the 15" radius. So if you want to try to get the 15" radius, you would have to purchase the track separately, correct? Is there a special kind of track / cars I need to buy in order to get the smaller radius and make sure the cars will work properly on the track?
My problem is I am trying to incorporate this into a Christmas Village display and the "N" scale is too small. I really need HO, or TT (TT would be perfect) but It would be great if I can keep the radius at 15". I don't especially care if I have to use smaller cars/loco's...although I don't really know much about how you tell the sizes while shopping online? Unless someone knows where I can get TT scale???
Thanks for the replies and help

[ACY]

For your purposes I would buy something like a Plymouth (Product Code: 60002)

and some shorter rolling stock like some ore cars as seen below, basically anything under 40' will work

[burnbabyburn]

Ok, I'm getting it...smaller distance between the wheels to make navigating the tighter radius turns easier. What about track? Should I use the designated 15" radius track or is it possible to do it with Flex Track/
Thanks for the help!

[jward]

as a beginner, i would advise you to stay away from the flex track for now. the reason is this: flex track requires some skills you probably don't have yet. it is easy to learn on the larger radius curves how to lay flex track without kinks at the rail joints. the larger radius the more forgiving the track is of such kinks. while flex track can be used to make extremely small radius curves, down to 6" radius or possibly smaller, the joints are much harder to get aligned properly the smaller radius you go. using standard sectional track ensures that if you take a little care in laying the track you won't have kinks.

keep in mind a small kink on say 30" radius curves is no big deal, on 15" radius the same kink will cause major problems because your locomotives and cars are probably operating close to the limits of what they were designed for. this is why i strongly advise against the use of 15" radius track.

[burnbabyburn]

Very good info...thank you.

[Doneldon]

bbb-

I support jward's comments about radius and avoiding flex track. The easiest track for your to use would be Bachmann's EZ Track or a similar product from another manufacturer. The reason is that it's easier to get your track joints put together well when your track has attached roadbed. Just be sure that the foot of a rail slides into the rail joiner and doesn't end up on top of it. You can tell by close examination or by rubbing a finger over the joint to ensure that it is smooth.

You won't find a train set with 15" radius track but that's okay. You'll often wind up with better quality items when you pick and choose rather than take what comes in a set. Of course you'll lose the cost advantage which train sets provide. The trade off is that  non set trains let you buy items from any manufacturer so you have a better selection. Just make sure that the couplers are compatible. You can often purchase track on ebay for much less than you'd pay in a model shop, and even cheaper than online retailers. However, you probably won't see much 15" radius on ebay unless you are patient.

I understand why you don't want to go with N-gauge trains but you have another candidate: On3. Bachmann and a few other companies sell narrow gauge O-scale trains which run on HO track.

On3 means that the trains are built to a 1:48 proportion instead of HO's 1:87. However, the trains are narrow gauge which means that they run on tracks which are narrower than regular trains. There aren't any narrow gauge trains running in the United States any more, other than some tourist railroads, but they were pretty common at one time. Narrow gauge was used to save on construction costs and to be able to run with sharper curves, due to the geometry of narrower tracks and shorter locos and cars. They were often used for mining and lumber railroads. Narrow gauge track could be as narrow as 18" but almost all were 30" or 36" gauge. Full gauge is 56 1/2".

The On3 trains are closer to the right scale for most Christmas Garden buildings than is HO. In theory, O-scale is about twice as big as HO but in practice it isn't quite that much bigger (87 isn't twice 48) and, in addition, narrow gauge trains are a little smaller than full size trains, regardless of the gauge. So On3 really isn't a whole lot bigger than HO but it will be closer to the right size for the buildings. Plus, narrow gauge trains have a funky look that is quite charming, moreso with Christmas Village buildings.

Whatever you decide, good luck and, as the Bach Mann says, "Have fun!"
                                                                                                                                -- D

[CNE Runner]

BBB - An excellent source for small layouts is Carl Arendt's website at:

http://carendt.us/

Check out the Small Layout Scrapbook or the Small Layout Plans section...trust me there are numerable ideas within the site. If it were not for Carl's inspiration, and information, I would still be an 'armchair modeler' for lack of layout space.

Regarding the suggestion of Bachmann's Plymouth MDT (which it isn't) stay away from this locomotive. The Plymouth is a poor runner because of its cheaper construction and axle-to-frame power pick up method. In addition, this product isn't what it proports to be (a Plymouth MDT is a two-axle machine whilst the Bachmann product has 3 axles...closer to a Plymouth 'W' model type). I strongly suggest the Bachmann Spectrum GE 45 Ton locomotive. This locomotive is a smooth, reliable runner that will give you years of service. Additionally, it is dual-mode which means it contains a decoder that will run on DC as well as DCC layouts (and it can be converted to sound...neat).

I wish you much success on your model railroad adventure. This is a hobby that one can 'dive into' as deeply as one wishes. I have acquaintances who only own R-T-R (ready to run) cars and built-up structures. Other acquaintances love the challenge of craftsman kits for rolling stock and buildings. The main idea is to have fun.

All the best,
Ray

[Terry Toenges]

Since you want to use 15" radius, consider the Old West type stuff. The cars and locos are generally shorter than their modern day counterparts.
If you go with On30/On3, the cars and locos are much longer than then their HO counterparts.

[burnbabyburn]

Thanks for all the advice, and keep it coming
I've located someone who runs a store that sells this stuff. I'm in the process of getting him to put a package together now.

[ebtnut]

Atlas makes (or made) 15" radius Snap Track, but I don't know now if they made it with nickle silver rail or not.  The old stuff was brass, which oxidizes fairly quickly and affects current pick-up from rail to wheels.  Most small diesels, especially the switchers like the SW-9/12/1500 will negotiate 15" curves.  Small steam, like the Bachmann 0-6-0T should also work. Steam-era rolling stock such as 40 foot box cars and two-bay hoppers should be OK too.  Some of the recent RTR rolling stock comes with detailed underbodies that include brake rigging.  You may have to trim some of this a bit to allow the wheels to clear.  Same with the coupler boxes - some judicious trimming with an Xacto knife may be needed. 

[jonathan]

Burn,

This is a part of my layout I don't usually talk about, but since you're considering some 15" radius curves in your layout, here's something I did with that track.

I have a loop, branchline really, that runs separately from the mainline.  There is a junction that connects them...

Anyway, Due to lack of space (sound familiar?) I was forced to use a 15" radius turnaround.  As mentioned by others, this limits the type of trains you can run.  I happen to like small ore cars and small steam.  Eight wheel diesels are fine, too.

I lit up this part of my layout which is usually dark and hidden. Here's a few pics:

I have a small piece of 18" radius track to start the curve.  This is a crude easement to get the train use to the turn:


Train moving through the whole curve:


Another piece of 18" radius to finish the turn:



A few gratuitous photos. Just because...


To get to the turnaround, the train actually travels through that long warehouse in the background.  The windows are blacked out so you can't see the train while it's moving in the background.






Like I said, this part of the layout is usually hidden so no one's getting lost in the scenery here.  Hopefully, this will help you out.  15" radius can be done.  It's a bit limiting and trackwork can be a challenge.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Atlas makes (or made) 15" radius Snap Track, but I don't know now if they made it with nickle silver rail or not.  The old stuff was brass, which oxidizes fairly quickly and affects current pick-up from rail to wheels.  Most small diesels, especially the switchers like the SW-9/12/1500 will negotiate 15" curves.  Small steam, like the Bachmann 0-6-0T should also work. Steam-era rolling stock such as 40 foot box cars and two-bay hoppers should be OK too.  Some of the recent RTR rolling stock comes with detailed underbodies that include brake rigging.  You may have to trim some of this a bit to allow the wheels to clear.  Same with the coupler boxes - some judicious trimming with an Xacto knife may be needed. 

Yes, they did, or do, make it in nickle silver. Just over a quarter of a century ago I built a small platform 39 inches wide for storage under a twin bed. I put down two loops of track. The outer loop was conventional 18-inch-radius nickle silver track on cork roadbed. The inner loop was 15-inch-radius nickle silver track, also on cork roadbed. I can't say whether the 15-inch nickle silver curves are in production now, as I haven't looked for any since I switched to Bachmann EZ-Track. I suppose a check of the Atlas web site would answer that question. I do know that Atlas' Tru-Track roadbed track does not come in 15-inch-radius.