Switching (shunting) Ideas for Operation

[CNE Runner]

One of the hazards of model railroading is loss of interest over time. How long can one satisfy their 'creative juices' - watching trains endlessly 'chase their tails'? This problem can be greater on small shelf layouts with their limited trackage. I think I have a way around this problem...I'm sure others can contribute even more.

The Monks' Island Railway uses switch lists that are generated randomly (less cheating on the part of the Runner). I use 3 dice as follows: 10-sided = industries/sidings, red 6-sided die = load, and a white 6-sided die = IN or OUT. [If you don't have any dice, or if you need more than a 10-sided die, visit your local gaming store OR check out the random die generators on the Internet.]

To start, I have made a list of all the industries/sidings on the line and have arranged them in a column labeled "location" (in my case each was numbered from 1 to 9). A cast of the 10-sided die determines which industry/siding is of concern (zero is the Runner's choice). At this point we have now determined which industry is going to be effected by the move.

Now, using the white 6-sided die, I determine whether the load will be IN or OUT (1,3,5 = IN; while 2,4,6 = OUT). OK, we now know whether a car will be spotted to a specific industry/siding...or whether a car is needed at that location.

The actual load (IN or OUT) is determined by the red 6-sided die from our list of industries/sidings. This is an optional step that provides increased operation by the occasional transfer of an empty car from one location to another location requiring same...sometimes a real 'hair puller'. Keep in mind the type of car must be appropriate to the load (it is difficult to carry bulk gasoline on a flat car).

The entire system is based on chance and your collection (you could probably use as little as 5 or 6 cars...or the whole fleet). Once the basic system is set up it is capable of generating an amazing number of 'moves' (I won't go into the mathematics of randomization).

As I am writing this fourth draft, I have come to the realization that doing the topic justice would take a huge amount of Forum space. There are a few forms I have devised and would be willing to share with my Forum friends. Drop me an email and I will be glad to send you all the pertinent information I use on the Railway (use the email address on the Profile page). Please put "Bachmann Forum switching" (or something similar) in the subject line as I do not open emails from unknowns.

Trust me when I say I can keep you very, very busy on even the simplest layout. There is no reason to sit and watch your trains 'chase their tails'. Ideally my system only requires: MS Excel, 3 different dice, and some of your time. Please note: Regular notebook paper can be substituted for MS Excel, random die generators are available for free on the Internet, and everyone has some time to put to the hobby.

Regards,
Ray

[Jim Banner]

Ray,

May I add a reference to Adrian Wymann's excellent site, "Model Railways Shunting Puzzles."
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/

Have a look at the Inglenook Sidings in particular.  This is one I would like to build with the main line section actually part of the main line of a larger layout.  For the puzzle, there would be yard limits to take the place of the ends of the main line in the puzzle as shown.  An added twist would be the requirement to clear the main every time a through train needed it.  I think that with scratch built ore cars and a scratch built 0-4-0 or a gas mechanical, the whole thing could be built in the same four feet at the original, even in 0n30.

Jim

[Doneldon]

Ray-

Write up your scheme and submit it to Model Railroader.
I'll bet they would publish it. I'll edit for you if you need
any help there.
                                        -- D

[jward]

the system my dad has used since 1978 involves a car card for each card. and a waybill card attatched to it. empty cars in a yard are given waybill cards (by car type) at random. the front of the waybill card  shows where the car is to be sent for loading. once there, the waybill is flipped over to reveal where the car is headed for unloading. once there, the waybill is removed and the car routed back to the nearest yard to be assigned another waybill.

this system can reproduce the car shortages and surplusses common to real railroads. and on his layout, with 3 yards on 3 dirfferent lines joined at a central junction. trains of cars and engines are often shuffled from yard to yard to relieve shortages.

it is an interesting system. and the beauty of it is that it perpetuates itself without intervention.

[rogertra]

Ray,

May I add a reference to Adrian Wymann's excellent site, "Model Railways Shunting Puzzles."
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/

Have a look at the Inglenook Sidings in particular.  This is one I would like to build with the main line section actually part of the main line of a larger layout.  For the puzzle, there would be yard limits to take the place of the ends of the main line in the puzzle as shown.  An added twist would be the requirement to clear the main every time a through train needed it.  I think that with scratch built ore cars and a scratch built 0-4-0 or a gas mechanical, the whole thing could be built in the same four feet at the original, even in 0n30.

Jim

For real operation on a railroad, the LAST thing you need is a switching puzzle.  Railroads don't build switch puzzles, model railroaders build switch puzzles.  Switching puzzle become a real pain if you are into prototype operation.

Puzzles are great as a small stand alone at exhibitions or meets, to test people's skills and if that's all you have room for but as part of a model railroad featuring car forwarded etc, bad idea.

[Jim Banner]

Good point, Roger.  Perhaps I should have pointed out that I already have a good sized layout in H0 that takes half a dozen of us to operate.  The layout I was considering adding the Inglenook to is a portable 0n30 layout, presently 4' x 10', designed as a show layout.  It presently includes loop-to-loop operation on two levels with a helix between levels and automatic operation of the loops.  It also includes a distorted oval where I let show patrons run trains.  "Junior Engineers" are often hesitant at first but after a while, their parents almost have to pry the throttle out of their hands.

My original design includes a center section between the two extant ones, something about 5 or 6 feet long.  I figured a switching puzzle in that section would add interest, including for me during slow periods.

Real operation on the railroad is about impossible during a show.  Our large scale portable layout was originally designed with a single track and three long passing sidings with limited operation in mind.  But we learned years ago that the public does not want to see real operation.  They want to see trains moving.  So we switched the whole thing to dual track.  One advantage of dual track is that we have been able to let the public, mostly "junior engineers," run a train without bringing the rest of the layout to a grinding halt.  It is amazing to see how serious youngsters can be when given the "awesome responsibility" of running a train.  But one thing we have learned is to downplay the cost of the train he or she is running if a parent should ask.  The parents just about go into shock if we tell them the truth.

Jim       

[CNE Runner]

I am glad to see there is interest in 'switching scenarios' as yet another dimension in model railroading.

Jim - I had originally intended to mention Adrian Wymann's website; but apparently left it on the 'editing room floor'. Excellent resource to get one started. As always one should spend adequate time to peruse Carl Arent's website for additional information

Don - I will take your suggestion of writing an article for one of the trade magazines (or e-zines) seriously.

Jward - The problem with most 'card system' procedures is that they are: 1) really designed for larger layouts, 2) can be almost unmanageable for small, dense layouts and 3) usually require an inordinate amount of preparation or paper shuffling. I needed something that was extremely user friendly and NOT time consuming. [PS: I probably own 7 or 8 books on model railroad operations...all of which aren't applicable to mini layouts.]

Roger - You are of course correct...real railroads avoid 'puzzles' like the plague ('puzzles' involve increased movements; which translates to increased labor and machine costs). I did not advocate a 'puzzle' [I think the word 'scenario' is more appropriate.] for a larger layout...or a layout run to prototype rules. The point is (was) that too many people give up on the hobby because it [sometimes] doesn't provide the stimulation many of us enjoy (consider the draw of computer video games...stimulation and problem solving). I like to run the Monks' Island Railway at least 4 times per week (or more). Each time is different from the last - due to varied switching scenarios. At my age (21++++) anything that stimulates the 'gray cells' is good.

Regards,
Ray

[jettrainfan]

CNE Runner, good idea! Might try that with my layout once i figure out whats what.

CV&WS uses switch lists (plus more paper work that makes no sense because they don't tell us the mile markers and such)  that tell us which cars go where when we try to do an operating session. Funny part is, with the grain elevator, no one seems to care about switch list and just switch it when ever they like, which I see it fine.

I rarely get bored there because i got a few steamies and creative ideas to keep me entertained.

Maintenance trains are my favorite, a friend gave me a gp50 and i had him paint it to LTEX, now it goes on my Maine Central gondola. Any ideas how i can switch that out just to give them an idea?

[CNE Runner]

JTF - It sounds like your 'dance card' is filled...good for you!

Now, working in that maintenance train: How about using a die that has at least one more side than you have industries/sidings? The extra side(s) could be for 'special events' like a maintenance train, or weed control, or an extra run. Another idea would be to require the runner/dispatcher to draw from some pre-made cards (shuffled of course) that list such things as: maintenance train, locomotive failure wait for replacement, derailment, etc.

Let's say you have 9 industries/sidings. Throwing a 7, for example, on the 10-sided die would have you service (IN or OUT) industry #7. Suppose further a zero is thrown (instead of a 7). The runner/dispatcher would have to draw a card from the 'Special Events' pile and make plans to accommodate those instructions...I'd have a bottle of aspirin handy because that could get interesting.

BTW: If that procedure isn't stressful enough for you - try doing the same thing with the use of a 'fast clock'. If you have an Iphone, Ipad, or Ipod Touch there is a great app for a model railroad fast clock available (check with Apple's App Store).

Ray

[kamerad47]

Roger  your right class 1 RR's don't do switching puzzles , But there are plenty of short lines & terminal RR's that do alot of switching !!! Look up the Richmond pacific RR , The was a article in MR last year how they switch! example a Co gave them a list of tank cars to bring to there property they gave them specific car #, they were not in order on the siding they had to dig them out to get to them, maybe not a swtching puzzle but real close!!

[RAM]

The club I go to uses a card system.  The waybills have four locations, two on each side.  They operate once a month.  So it could makes the rounds ever 4 months.  However it is more likely to take 6-8 months because it may stay at one location the next time.  It may be you have a mill that has a siding only two cars long.  However you have three cars for them.  So you leave the car on an empty siding and put the car card in the box for off spot, to be moved to the mill the next operation.  No cars a sent to the yards.  They come to the yard only because they need to be switched to go out on another train to another location

[jward]

For real operation on a railroad, the LAST thing you need is a switching puzzle.  Railroads don't build switch puzzles, model railroaders build switch puzzles.  Switching puzzle become a real pain if you are into prototype operation.

that is not exactly true. the real railroads don't build switching puzzles if they have a choice. but sometimes space constraints due to buildings or terrain dictate what you can do and how much room you have to do it.

when i worked with the railroad, one power plant i was often at was a big switching puzzle played with 100 car trains. we had to do some pretty intricate moves to swap a loaded train for an empty one. something always had to be moved out of the way.

industries served by switchback spurs are relatively common in western pa and west virginia. and the old style coal mines which had 5 or 6 tracks for loading various grades of coal were puzzles in and of themselves. and don't even get me started on steel mills, with their tight curves, sidings which crisscrossed each other trying to fit through door openings..... the list goes on.

an extreme example was the wye in connellsville, pa that had maybe a dozen industries and several crossings in it, the industries were crammed in and around this junction in such a way that they must have given the tower operator fits everytime an industry was switched.

[kamerad47]

Check out some small switching RR's  that still use a 44 ton (Lapeer Idustrial RR , Alexander RR & Tybrune RR)