Williams engine, unsure of number

[phillyreading]

Does any one know how old this engine is? The number is 51923 Western Maryland F-7 diesel, WRL is on the bottom of it or Williams Reproduction Line. This is a Williams before Bachmann engine.
If anybody has info on this engine please post on here! Thank you.

Lee F.

[MAPA JCT]

WHERE do you "see" this "51923" number? On a box? A Label? Printed on the bottom of engine?
I don't recognize the number. If it helps, Williams sold out to BACHMANN in the Fall of 2006, so it's at least 2006 or older model.

[rtraincollector]

Marty this was started by a guy on CTT forum and he says on the cab of the engine right under the window I'm starting to think it may have been a repaint someone did years ago as I myself never seen that high of a number on a model train.

[phillyreading]

Marty this was started by a guy on CTT forum and he says on the cab of the engine right under the window I'm starting to think it may have been a repaint someone did years ago as I myself never seen that high of a number on a model train.

rtraincollector, you are correct that somebody started this on CTT forum, but I wanted to know if anybody ever heard of a cab number that high in Williams. I could'nt find anything as to what it might be. Also it has WRL on the bottom of the engine according to the person who started this on CTT.
Marty, you are probally correct in saying that it could be a re-numbered item.
However what kind of sound system might be in this engine if it came with one?

Lee F.

[rtraincollector]

My old Williams trainmaster I was talking about came with none when I got it and it didn't show of any evidence it ever had any so I thinking some never did. now with that said some actually had a type of crew talk it would as you applied power to it would say something like engine 951 your clear to go and then you would hear engine 951 departing number may be wrong but they all said the same thing no matter what engine you had. The also had a system which I guess was true blast one or just troubles that was in my opion better which was like older Lionel's just a horn and you had control over how long it sounded ( or someone replaced what was in the one I got never did take cab off to look in that one so not sure) so in short you have maybe tru-blast one, no sound , tru-blast 2 and then the one that was kinda like crew talk to my knowledge that covers basically what they had. Now which one his had could help date his engine better.

[phillyreading]

Williams had a few versions in the past and only the Crown Edition had what might be compared to crew talk or pre-recorded announcements that had "Train 10 clear on track 15". The circuit board was produced by QSI and installed inside the Williams at time of sale.

Some of the other Williams engines had a horn, if so equipped.

True Blast 2 came in to production just before being sold to Bachmann, or was the last of Williams new products.

Lee F.

[rtraincollector]

Williams had a few versions in the past and only the Crown Edition had what might be compared to crew talk or pre-recorded announcements that had "Train 10 clear on track 15". The circuit board was produced by QSI and installed inside the Williams at time of sale.

Some of the other Williams engines had a horn, if so equipped.

True Blast 2 came in to production just before being sold to Bachmann, or was the last of Williams new products.

Lee F.

Alli know I had a set of Sharknose B&O (A-B-B-A) and all were in same type of boxes none said crown edition and both Bunits i think would state engine xxx clear to go and then the you would hear engine xxx departing and I do believe it was QSI system in it. But this set was not marked crown edition any wear. and when I called Williams one time because the system went out or rather to garble in one they said it was unreplaceable . It was what was in there older trains . and as far as trueblast 2 they had that at least 5 years befor selling to Bachmann as my virginian set has it and I bought that in like 2004

[phillyreading]

I am going by information that was given to me by an independant distributor of Williams Trains in the mid to late 1990's. Some of the info may not be 100% correct according to differant sources. Also some hobby shops or small dealers broke up sets to sell single items from.

Bachmann claims that the QSI units were installed as aftermarket installations, meaning that the unit had to be installed by somebody other than a factory person at Williams, but due to the fact that there are so many QSI units installed in most of the Crown Edititons and were installed in nearly the same fashion, would lead me to believe that Williams sent the engines out for the installation and then sold them to their dealers or distributors. As for the Crown Edition marking; it is on the box or carton the train came in and not on the train itself.
I am not 100% sure about the QSI installation, except to say that the factory or the company that buys out somebody else should know what was done.

Lee F.

[rtraincollector]

when I said set I ment the boxes as I'm sure they wouldn't have it on the engine. The set was not per-say a set bought that way actually I bought all 4 pieces separately but in there original boxes with paperwork and seems it said it may or may not have sound that was an add on on only some units. any way I don't have them anymore so can't be 100% sure what it did or didn't say. just know what it did lol.

[MAPA JCT]

Maybe I can finally put this to rest.

Lee F comment is 100% correct. If by chance you have a unit with QSI, SOMEBODY installed it, not Williams.

Back in the 1990-2000 time frame, you could purchase a Williams AA set with a HORN only or with TRUSOUNDS. Every set was marked either "HORN" or "TRUSOUNDS", depending on WHICH model you purchased.

The TRUSOUNDS boards were made by OTT MACHINE WORKS (that's what I was told years ago), and were installed in the MFRG process. If my memory is correct, the TRUSOUNDS were also sold as a after market purchase through WILLIAMS.

[phillyreading]

If Williams didn't install the QSI unit, do you know who did?

I have two sets of F-7 A-B-A engines, A Santa Fe and a Pennsy, by Williams, both with QSI sound and reverse boards. My guess was that the QSI system got put in at the factory because both sets have the QSI boards in the same place and wired exactly the same way.
If they were not installed at the factory then my second guess would be that it was a Williams authorised repair center that did the up-grade to QSI.

I did not buy these sets of A-B-A engines brand new, they were purchased from a Williams dealer in southeast Florida who claims they are brand new(never run before) just sitting around for a few years. They are very nice sets for the money I paid.

Lee F.

[trainkrzy]

  I have a trainmaster with QSI sounds and reverse. It is in a box that looks like Williams,but is plain white with QSI markings only. There is no markings or logo's on any of the parts, but the parts are identical/interchangeable with Williams. Maybe QSI bought parts/locomotives from the same place Williams did and installed their own equipment, then sold them thru Williams.

[phillyreading]

The box the set of engines came in has Williams in blue letters on the outside box and has seperate boxes inside, somebody wrote in marker pen: True Sounds, Santa Fe. The inner boxes have a pattern design of stripes; white and a light red, and on the end flap it has powered or unpowered A unit, unpowered B unit.
The passenger cars I bought came in a bigger box and have seperate boxes with an outer plastic bag, with styrofoam inserts, for each car to go into. The outside box has Williams on it in black letters and passenger set of cars, looks like somebody used a marker pen to indicate what roadname the passenger cars are for.

Lee F.