Benchwork - 1x3 or 1x4?

[Cowboy]

I am about to start building my benchwork and my research has shown that we often over-build our bench.

I am going to use Fir as the frame with a 1/2" Birch plywood - all covered with 2" of foam. My layout goes around the room and will be 2' wide and have runs of 10 and 12 feet. I plan on using cross pieces every 16" inches.

So my question to those who may know: Could I use 1x3 Fir? It is almost half the cost of 1x4.

[jward]

i have used 1x3 but i would support it well, legs every 6 feet or so.  for longer runs, or for a table that is sturdy enough to walk on, use 1x4. whichever you use, buy the better grade wood and CAREFULLY CHOOSE THE STRAIGHTEST PIECES. the benchwork is no place to cut costs. everything you build depends on the benchwork.....

[CNE Runner]

Howdy Cowboy - I use 1"x 2" lumber for my dioramas and mini layouts. The length of the layout is [usually] shorter than 60" (width less than 15") and is well supported. Lumber is measured before final 'trimming' so that a 1"x 2" is really 3/4"x 1.5" [following that procedure further, a 1"x 3" = 3/4"x 2.5"; and a 1"x 4" = 3/4"x 3.5""]...a 2.5" piece of framing isn't much to support track, scenery, and structures (assuming you never lean on the layout). Additionally, even the best grade lumber (straightest) will warp over time with changes in temperature, humidity and load. [As an aside: That is why I tend to use birch for framing as it is more resistant to warpage than pine.]

I strongly recommend that you use the tried-and-true L-girder construction as put forth by Lynn Westcott. There are several books on benchwork that can explain this method - or check out one of the recent issues of Model Railroader (they are building a new 4'x 8' layout).

In summary, the type (grade/size) of the lumber you choose for your benchwork should be designed with its eventual purpose in mind...and not the cost. A few extra dollars spent now can avoid a lot more expenditure in the future if things go awry.

Ray

[richg]

Our club, I and many others have used 1 x 2 and made L girder type bench work. We used sheet rock screws for construction. I split 2 x 4 for the legs and use 1 x2 for angle supports.

Below is a search link for model railroad L girder.

http://tinyurl.com/46v2zwb

Store the links you like in Favorites.

Rich

[Doneldon]

Cowboy-

Great question. Unfortunately, there is no one right answer, just a whole bunch of opinions, including mine. I suggest you read all of them, consider the pluses and minuses, and decide for yourself.

On to my opinion(s) which, I hate to admit, is no better or worse than anyone else's: Use the L-girder technique. There are several ways to do this from two 1x2s to a 1x4 and a 1x2. I suggest finding the middle ground, i.e., a 1x3 and a 1x2 with the 1x2 on its side on top of one of the 1x3's edges. This will give you quite a rigid structure, especially since you have a fairly narrow shelf. However, I wouldn't try to go 10' to 12' without either legs or wall brackets, or some combination of the two. If you use wall brackets be sure they are up to supporting something two feet from the wall and on which someone is sure to lean. Legs may be better than brackets for that reason. However, you can probably get away with wall brackets if they are a good size plywood triangle attached both right under the table and again near the bottom of the wall. In either event, I'd provide support at least every six feet. Last, consider using birch plywood for both your tabletop and the framework. It will help you avoid most of the problems of warping due to seasonal humidity fluctuations.

Good luck with your construction and layout. Be sure to post some comments and photos of your progress.
                                                                                                                                                         -- D

[ebtnut]

As with framing a house, the spacing of the supports is as important as their dimensions.  If you are building a flat table top layout, the 1x3's on 15" centers should be just fine, especially with a full sheet of plywood for a top.  The L-girder design is in a sense a poor-man's I-beam.  It helps keep the beam straight, and the "L" provides a place to screw the joists to that actually support the track risers for the track.  Some people with the proper wood-working equipment actually make wood I-beams like many home-builders use these days - a pair of 1x3's slotted on one side into which a piece of 1/4" plywood is inserted to make the web of the I-beam.  It is light and strong, but does require a good table saw and dado blade, along with glue and clamps to assemble the beams.  

[Cowboy]

... If you are building a flat table top layout, the 1x3's on 15" centers should be just fine, especially with a full sheet of plywood for a top.  The L-girder design is in a sense a poor-man's I-beam.  It helps keep the beam straight, and the "L" provides a place to screw the joists to that actually support the track risers for the track.... 

Thank you! I have read quite a bit on the L-girder design, but couldn't get my head wrapped around the benefit of it. Your concise explanation clarified it for me. My table will have a full sheet of plywood (1/2 sheet actually  ).

Thanks to all for your input. You provide me exactly what I was looking for - opinions.

[CNE Runner]

Just some more food for thought: I remember visiting a layout where the benchwork was constructed of steel studs. Apparently this guy was able to take the old steel studding out of a store that was being remodeled. Personally, I have no experience with steel studs; but he said they were easy to work with.

Ray

[mabloodhound]

As I replied on the other forum, 3/4"  AC plywood is the best and cheapest material to use.   Ripping 4' x 8' sheets into 3" or 4" strips gives you very stable 'boards'.   You can also make your 'L' girders with the plywood much cheaper than pine or fir and with no worry about future warping.
When you make your 'L' girder, make sure to assemble them properly with the support/strengthening piece screwed to the bottom face of the 'L', not to the edge.   Now this is really the same thing, it's just when you go to use them in the layout you want the assembled 'L' installed right.   Hard to explain, just remember there is no strength if the screws go into the edge of the top piece.


__  (screw)
  |
  |
_________   (top surface)
|________|
|  |
|  |
|_|
     (strengthener)

Maybe that helps.

[Cowboy]

...   Ripping 4' x 8' sheets into 3" or 4" strips gives you very stable 'boards'.   You can also make your 'L' girders with the plywood much cheaper than pine or fir and with no worry about future warping.
...  Hard to explain, just remember there is no strength if the screws go into the edge of the top piece ...

Maybe that helps.

It does. Thank you. Perhaps I need to purchase a table-saw.

.. James

[Doneldon]

MBH-

Your drawing, which is quite a piece of work I must say, shows the construction just as I described it. However, it is critical that the wider stock be placed on edge for greatest strength.
                                                                                                                              -- D

[Cowboy]

Cowboy,
Click Here and also look at other pages for more info.

Thanks! Very helpful

[mabloodhound]

A table saw is a good investment, especially if you have a home and plan on future projects.
Just get one large enough(10" contractor type) to handle the plywood sheets, not a cheapie.
Look in Craig's List for a used one, many of which will be fine.   But have someone help you pick it out to make sure it's a good one.
My Craftsman is 25 years old and going strong.

[Doneldon]

I think it's neat the way table saws have made such a
comeback. It seems everybody wanted a radial arm
until the last few years.
                                                      -- D

[mabloodhound]

Radial arm saws can be dangerous, especially for the uninitiated.   Takes some training and they are bulkier than a TS.