E44

[Conrail Quality]

Actually, the Pennsy's DD-2's were the Great Northern's Y-1 class boxcabs come East, when the GN sold them to the PRR after de-electrification of their Cascade Route. One of which (but to my knowledge, not acquired by the Pennsy) was rebuilt after a bad accident, with a couple of EMD F-unit bodies spliced together, as a replacement carbody. From what I read, one of the problems the Pennsy experienced with them, was severe interference with the two-way radio system they were using onboard trains, at the time.

You've mixed up the names a little. The DD-2 was basically a modified GG-1 with four driving axles intead of six like the GG-1 had. A single experimental was built, and was judged to perform no better than the GG-1. No more were built. The GN electrics the Pennsy bought were clasified FF-2. Here's the interesting part. The Pennsy, for some reason, bought seven Z1's and one Y1a(the one involved in the collision). The Y1 was held for parts, while the Z1's were actually used. I personally never understood why the Pennsy bought: a. The weirdo of the bunch(the Y1a), and b. the older Z-1's as opposed to the newer W-1's.

[Frankford el car]

The Great Northern's W-1's had four drive axles, per main truck. The same as you state the DD-2 experimental resembling a GG-1, was equipted with. I think the Virginian (original owner of the E-33's) also had some W-1's, though I don't remember if they carried the same class designation on the VGN. They might have even been the units from the GN, after the Cascade Division was de-electrified. The only other electrics in the US to have the same four-drive-axle configeration per main truck, were the Milwaukee Road's and South Shore Line's "Little Joe's", and the Milwaukee Road's Bi-Polar's. Now THAT would be an interesting sight, in New Haven McGinnis colors.

[r.cprmier]

 Now THAT would be an interesting sight, in New Haven McGinnis colors.


McGinnis?  MCGINNIS???  Curb your tongue, Knave!!  NOTHING looks good in McGinnis colours; in fact, the only colours HE looked good in were black and white!!!

On to other things:

The Virginian had a rather humongously behemoth electric "motor".  What was that called?  It was bigger than a EF-3, and had Westinghouse pans.

RIch

RIch

[Frankford el car]

If you're referring to some Virginian electrics that resembled the Milwaukee Road's, and South Shore Line's "Little Joe's", I think they're the same units I suspect were purchased from the Great Northern. I've seen photos of them in the VGN's blue-yellow paint scheme, and believe they are one and the same.

[RAM]

I don't think the Virginian electrics were little Joe's.  I think they were gone before the Milwaukee Road's, and South Shore Line's stopped running the "Little Joe's"

[Conrail Quality]

I'm still trying to figure out what that huge Virginian electric was, but I'm certain it wasn't a Little Joe. Two reasons: A: The Viginian's catenary was shut down crica 1962. The Milwaukee scrapped its electrification in 1973, and the South Shore stopped electric freight in 1983. The Pautista Railway in Brazil de-elctrified in the late '90's. All ran their Joes up until the end. B: The Little Joes were built to run on a D.C. electrification system. The Virginian's was A.C. At best the Joe wouldn't have worked. At worst, the Joe would have caught fire. Rebuilding the Joes to work on an A.C. system would have been as expensive as buying a new locomotive altogether.

The GN W-1's and Pennsy DD-2's were not the same locomotives, though they had the same wheel arrangments. Notice the difference in trucks (and carbody).

[r.cprmier]

They ran on DC?  Off of the wire?  Why?  That would be a horrible way to get power, as AC can travel farther than DC over greater distances, and to run DC via catenary would have required some pretty expensive components. 

I would think [they] electrified with a nominal voltage, such as 11,000, dropped it per unit's equipment, EG a transformer, and rectified it .  I can verify this by saying that the EF-4s the New Haven had bought from the Virginian were set up for, I believe, 11,000VAC, stepped down and rectified (see "bricks") to the pressure the traction motors required.

Historically, that is where Edison lost out, because he believed in DC as a good power source, whereas George Westinghouse proved him wrong with his AC distributon system; and until not too long ago, there were still some areas of New York City that had DC as a utility voltage.  Not any more, though.

Rich 

[Elmore Yard]

The streamlined Virginian electrics were class EL-2b.  They were built by GE arrived on the property in 1948.  Known to the crews as "roundnoses" and "streamliners."  They were operated as two unit sets with each unit having four four axel trucks.  They produced 6800 horsepower with a maximum speed of 50 mph.  There were four pairs purchased numbered 125 - 128. 

They were painted black and yellow, not blue and yellow as mentioned previouly.  There were no Virginian diesels or electrics painted blue and yellow.  That is Lionel fantasy.

Tom M

[CAB_IV]

For the painters out there who like to do "what if" paint schemes - what would a Pennsy E-44 look like (you could say that the Pennsy was trying one or two which they leased.)

Pennsy BOUGHT the E44. Pennsy is the reason it exists!

I'm still trying to figure out what that huge Virginian electric was,

You are thinking of the Virginina EL3A boxcab.  that thing is ridiculous, its more like three engines under one road number. It has side rods to.

In terms of appearance, I have always liked the Westinghouse type pans on a locomotive.  I realize that Faivley pans are good and have their place, as current applications suggest.

I wasn't aware that E-44s were rectifier locomotives; for some reason, I had the impression that they were pure ac.  They did look good! 

yeah, the E44 was a upgraded E33.  However, the E44s themselves got an upgrade with the last 6 units being E44a models.  the E44a had a Silicon Diode rectifier, as opposed the the ancient (1930s tech) Ignitron rectifiers used on the E33 and early E44s.

Eventually, most E44s would be converted to E44a equipment.


This is actually why an E44 model will be tough.  There really is no set E44 configuration.   At first glance, they look all alike- Boxes with wheels. 

However, closer inspection will reveal all sorts of different of vent and louvers were used, especially along the roof line, so there could be issues with that.  i've seen all different vent arrangements, and i'm not sure which one would be best, as far as getting in all the paint jobs (Pennsy/Penn Central/ Conrail)

A Spectrum E44 might sell well.  How well did the E33 do?

They were painted black and yellow, not blue and yellow as mentioned previouly.  There were no Virginian diesels or electrics painted blue and yellow.  That is Lionel fantasy.

Tom M

yeah, but you have to admit, at first glance the black on some of these locomotives looke like a dark blue, atleast in my pictures.

[Elmore Yard]

You are thinking of the Virginina EL3A boxcab.  that thing is ridiculous, its more like three engines under one road number. It has side rods to.

Not rediculous.  They pulled 9000 ton coal trains coal trains from Clarks Gap, WV to Roanoke, Va. from 1926 till the last was retired in 1959.  Several were operated as single units for use on local freights and work trains.

They were supplemented by the bigger  EL-2bs in 1948 as I mentioned previously.  The rectifiers began arriving in October 1956 to begin retirement of the class EL-3a. 

[Hamish K]

They ran on DC?  Off of the wire?  Why?  That would be a horrible way to get power, as AC can travel farther than DC over greater distances, and to run DC via catenary would have required some pretty expensive components. 

Rich 

The Milwaukee Road electrified at 3000v DC from the wires. Many sources state this , for example seewww.milwelectric.org/HistoryPhotoArchive/history-home-060800.htm

(You will need to scroll down a bit). As that source makes clear AC was distributed to substations that sent DC to the wires. Such systems, at 1500 or 3000v DC were and still are quite common throughout the world.

Hamish

[r.cprmier]

Hamish;
What an interesting site!  You know, as an electrician, my first instinct in transmission of current is to do so as an AC component; for obvious reasons.  I wonder why, with the technological wherewithall available in those days-especially the New Haven's engineering presence in that area of the country at the time (Great Northern had hired the New haven's expertise)-that DC was transmitted over length.  OH, well.  I learned something new today.  Good.

THink Boston will win tonight??

RIch