what is the diff re: f3 and f7 locos ?

[WUFFO7]

could someone educate me to the difference between the f3 and/or f7 locos with respect to outward appearance and internals  especially with reference to williams ?  thanks.

[richg]

Very easy way to answer and you have links you can keep.

http://www.google.com/search?q=f3+diesle&hl=en#hl=en&&sa=X&ei=mTpHTby8I5DpgAen9KCTAg&ved=0CBkQvwUoAQ&q=f3+diesel&spell=1&fp=e0ce941d71bab0d5

http://www.google.com/search?q=f3+diesle&hl=en#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=f7+diesel&aq=0&aqi=g2g-v3&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=e0ce941d71bab0d5

There will be a few differences depending on the railroad that had them.

Rich

[jettrainfan]

usually a difference in the body or motor (When it comes to model trains, chances are they'll have the same motor)

[Woody Elmore]

F-3 locomotives had three portholes per side, F-7s had two portholes. there are other minor differences. The difference with the real engines was the prime mover. F-7s had more horsepower.

[jward]

EARLY f3a's are the only ones with 3 portholes. mid period f3a's had two portholes with wire mesh screen between them ("chicken wire" f3's) and late f3s were identical to early f7s. also early and some mid f3s had fans that protruded above the roofline, late f3s had them countersunk into the roofline like the f7s and later f units. there were many subvariations within these general guidelines, and details varied from order to order.

it is hard to tell given the poor quality of the photos on this site, but the "golden memories" f3 appears to be the middle period version. the traditional line version appears to be the same. both appear to have dynamic brake vents in the roof.

the f7 appears to be an early f7 without dynamic brakes, which on the f7s used a single fan on the roof right behind the cab where the vents were on an f3. units without dynamic brakes have a blank roofline at that point.


if i had decent photos of these units to work with, i could probably pinpoint things further.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear All,

From what I can recall, one difference between the Williams models is the F3 has an "inch and a half square" smooth roof panel on the rear,

while the F7 appears to have some pipes or vents sticking out in the same area.  (Steam generator exhaust pipes?)

The F7 also appears to have more detail.

F3 view:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/gallery.php?set_albumName=New-Williams-2010-Locos&id=aab&include=view_photo.php

F7 view (click on "enlarge" under photo):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Williams-F7103-SP-F7-Power-Dummy-Engine-Set-MD1101106-/260720836521?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3cb42c3fa9

Here's a backup for when the above link goes away:

http://yorktrains.com/WilliamsTrains/locos/images/f7/lF7_fec.JPG

I'm somewhat curious as to how and why Williams ended up with both F3 and F7 models.

Lionel only has F3 models.  (Williams originally made Lionel reproductions, so I'm assuming the F3 came first.)

Note that the power upgrade kits are different for the two:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=2762

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=2759

Were the F7 molds bought from another model train manufacturer?

What years were each of them introduced?

Should this discussion be moved to the WBB section?

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

Edit: Added backup link for F7 image.

 



 

[jward]

given those new photos, it appears i have to revise my assessment. thanks joe for the links.

it appears that the f3 is an mid period f3 without steam heating equipment. in other words, a freight f3.

the "f7" model is also an f3, although it is a late production model with some f7 spotting features. the dead giveaway here are the f3 style dynamic brake vents on the roof behind the cab. the vents at the rear of the unit indicate it is equipped with a boiler for steam heat of passenger cars. this would be a dual service f3.

unfortunately, neither of these is an f7, which should have a single fan for dynamic brakes where the vents are, or a blank panel in the roof.

the steam generator vents appeared on various models of f units, and are of no help in distinguishing which model it is.....

[WUFFO7]

Thanks to all.  you guys are great.  my question has been fully answered.

[Pacific Northern]

Another source is the Bowser site.

http://www.bowser-trains.com/Stewart/Loco%20Pages/F%20Unit_body_chart.htm

The site does not cover the motors or the electrical but it covers the body parts in super detail.