wondering

[gandy dancer#1]

HI: Recently i purchased a working radar tower for my ho set. My understanding it was possibly made in the late 50 or 60's for lionel and bottom says made in taiwan republic of china. couldnt find any info on it any where. My question is: did trains and accessories back then run on strictly dc?? This unit does not like the 16 volt ac output of my power pack, but hook it up to a 12 volt dc battery tender from my former goldwing bike and it purrs like a kitten but does turn radar antenna a little too fast So my  thinking maybe it needs just 6 volts dc?? Any thoughts on this greatly appreciated.

[OldTimer]

Don't mess with success, as they say.  See if you can find an old, inexpensive, train set power pack, hook up your radar tower to the variable DC outputs, and run your radar at about 1/2 throttle.   Adjust as necessary.   
OldTimer

[NarrowMinded]

Look around your house for an old cell phone charger that you no longer need many of them are around 5vdc plus or minus a volt. you could also go to radio shack and buy a potentiometer (volume control dial) and hook it in line with a dc supply and you could adjust the speed to your liking.

NM

[Doneldon]

gd1-

A couple of questions: First, are the emmanations from your "working radar tower" scale? That is, are these already miniscule radio waves 1:87? The second question is similar. If a real F-111 produces a radar image no larger than that of a shoe, do the reflections on your radar screen show something no larger than an HO shoe? If that is the case, what size? Men's or women's? Combat boot, flip-flop, cross trainer, slipper, mule, elevator, platform, penny loafer, wing tip, or FM pump? Thanks. I look forward to your reply.
                                                         

[RAM]

My question is: did trains and accessories back then run on strictly dc?? Yes.  dcc was not even a dream 60 years ago. 

[NarrowMinded]

If I may offer an opinion about your boot pondering,  I would think If his Radar is working in scale and it picked up a 1:1 F-111 (F-111 Not to stealthy, F-117 likely what you meant) his little radar operator would likely grease his shorts because his 1:87 screen would be completely lit up. I am sure the little guy would catch the FIRST train out of Clark's Ville so to speak.

NM

BTW, The same thought flashed in my mind when I saw "working radar" instead of animated radar antenna. I am a big Geek! I guess it comes from time working at the anechoic chamber at Edwards AFB in California...

[gandy dancer#1]

hey: i really like you guys,make it interesting yep i bluindered should have known better here The radar tower in question doesnt really emit signal, it is a nice little scale tower with control building, and the antenna on top goes round and round andround ::)going to use it for my re- creation of air base near me(altus, ok) Any way have learned it was produced in late 50's in limited supply,and was able to scoop it up for $30.00 in class a working order. my 2&1/2 yr old grandsons dad is in air force in afganistan right now, but every time i turn it on he say daddy's working right now and it makes him happy to see it on the layout. we are building the airport currently, so my partner in crime and little engineer and i are having a blast. Any way thanks to all of you great guys who have responded, and i must say you make me feel real comfortable here

[NarrowMinded]

Glad to here it Gandy, By the way My Great grand father was a Gandy Dancer


NM

[Jim Banner]

My question is: did trains and accessories back then run on strictly dc?? Yes.  dcc was not even a dream 60 years ago. 

In 1951, many accessories ran on ac, and many trains did as well.  0-27 was king of the rails and both major brands, Lionel and MARX ran on ac.  So did all of their accessories with one exception - Lionel's tender whistle ran on dc and was controlled by applying dc to the rails.

Most North American H0 of the time ran on dc but there were European makes, noteably Marklin, that ran on ac.  And most accessories ran on ac, in part because many of the accessories that used power were just powering lights.  Motorized accessories were largely ac as well because universal motors with wound fields were cheap to make and needed only simple transformers to run them.  DC only, permanent magnet motors existed but a dc supply to run them was relatively expensive back in the days of selenium rectifiers.  Solenoid operated accessories were common and while they could operate on dc or ac, again ac was cheaper to produce.  If you include switch motors as accessories, they were probably the most widely used accessory then as now.  And even today we commonly operate dual coil switch motors with ac.

So with all these ac accessories, why did we operate our H0 trains on dc?  Because DC motors were smaller than ac motors and dc motors are easily reversible just by reversing their polarity.

As RAM said, there was no DCC 60 years ago.  Digital control with vacuum tubes was out of the question, unless you had a 12 inch to the foot box car to house your decoder.  In 1951, the transistor was only 4 years old and expensive, particularly when you need thousands of them to build a basic decoder.  But the concept of controlling multiple trains on a single track was there and some people were experimenting with model aircraft reed relays.  Astrak, a frequency based command control system, was released by General Electric only a decade later.

Jim

[CNE Runner]

Gandy Dancer - Your radar tower accessory caught my interst; so I delved into my Lionel reference library for more information. You appear to possess a #0197 Rotating Radar Antenna which was produced from 1958 to 1961. Some of Lionel's HO accessories were produced by Life-Like and issued in Lionel boxes...I tend to doubt this one was, but I am not sure. Your unit would be worth approximately $50 - if it is in excellent condition AND has the original box. Most of the Lionel HO items, we have handled, operated in DC...I am not familiar with the #0197 to make an firm statement on power requirements.

Should you desire to keep your Rotating Radar Antenna, I would look very carefully at the condition of the wiring (you are dealing with something that is roughly 50 years old). The suggestion to lower the voltage is a good one as the motor that drives your antenna would be extremely difficult to replace.

Regards,
Ray

[gandy dancer#1]

Thank you ,thank you ray. From what i could gather, i came upwith the same or near conclusions as to manufacturer and time period. Unfortunately original owner of this unique little piece had lost the original box Have determined through very carefull experimentation that it is inded dc, and will operate at approx 6 volts smoothly. None of the components have any markings numbers ect, and nohing else on the unit other thn made in taiwan republic of china.It is in excellent shape no cracks fading ect so think i got lucky at 3$30.00 shipping included.? I have decided i am going to power it and any other dc devices with a medium power supply by pyramid 12 volts at 5 amp max, and am considering adding a 6 volt regulator in feed line to this device. Once again ray thank youfor your time andresearch very considerate of you. Please jump in on any of my comments your advice and opinions are welcom as any one else that wishes to do so

[gandy dancer#1]

TO NARROW MINDED: We have something in common,my grand father Burns worked for katy line all his life, started as a gandy dancer,worked his way to fireman,got a 10 cent raise said he was making big money 25 or 50 cents a day then, then worked his way up to conductor, got really big raise 1.00 a day, but  said he was living good life no more shovelling coal Iknow he moved my grandmother a lot  to various railroad camps during the time,according to her. She was a little 5 foot cherokee, and he was a scots man, and they had 10 kids 5 boys  5 girls, I can recall a lot  of stories from both of them, I personally dont know how they survived back then had to be a hard life, but my granny,always put it this way"we were happy and didnt know or have good enough sense to know we had a hard life and were po folks. maybe we and our children should look at that, we dont have it so bad after alll