Pulling power of Spectrum 4-6-0's

[rs]

I'm just getting back into model railroading, bringing my son along for the ride, and we're learning as we go.  We have an old 1970's era Tyco 4-6-2 that's about kaput.  We're running on 18" radius track and recently purchased a non-Spectrum smoker (2-6-0 or 0-6-0, I don't remember which), and it would only pull about 4 cars compared to our old 4-6-2 which pulled at least a dozen if not more.  We ended up returning the smoker.

I've read a number of threads here, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the pulling power would be determined by a combination of weight, # of drivers, diameter of drivers, drive mechanism, as well as other factors.  Yikes.  We're looking at the Spectrum 4-6-0's (with sound), e.g. 84903, 84904, 84906, 84907, etc.  Can anyone with experience with these or similar models comment on pulling power?  I'm assuming we should go with the 63" drivers?

Side issue, according to what I've read, 4-6-0's shouldn't have a problem on 18" radius track?  I'm assuming about the biggest I can go would be something like our old 4-6-2?

Thanks so much!

[Doneldon]

rs-

Welcome back to the hobby. I'm sure you'll enjoy trains again, much more than before, probably, since you're doing this with your son, and because the equipment is so much better in both appearance and function.

Some folks complain that the Spectrum 4-6-0 doesn't have much power. I don't agree. Mine will pull 6-8 cars on level or nearly level track. That's not too bad. After all, trains weren't all that long or fast in the haydays (early 1900s) of 4-6-0s. To pull more, go with a Pacific (4-6-2) or a Mikado (2-8-2). While the Mogul you had isn't known to be a brute, the small number of cars it pulled may not have been due only to the loco. If you had older cars, their wheels may well have been plastic with metal axles which had corroded and therefore didn't roll easily. If the cars were new and in a train set the problem could have been similar but without the corrosion. I think you'd be happy with the Ten-wheeler, especially if you get the smaller drive wheels.

You can certainly tune-up your old Pacific, including replacing the motor if that's the problem. (It very well might be.) You could either put in a direct replacement (easy job, motors usually available for not much on ebay) or use a new can motor for enhanced performance and an easier conversion to DCC later if that's your wish. I'm guessing that is already on your mind since you mentioned sound. While you can have sound in non-DCC engines, and even have some control over those sounds, the full experience is significantly better IMHO, and easier to operate. If you do go DCC, start with your decoders already installed when you buy your locos. It's cheaper that way as well as avoiding the hassle of an install. I believe all Spectrum locos now in production are either DCC or DCC with sound, or at least DCC ready for a near drop-in installation.

The determinants for locomotive pulling power are many. Generally, larger, heavier locomotives with more and smaller drive wheels pull better than their opposites but that's not always true. The motor or gearing in a given loco may help or hinder its performance, as will any mechanical problems or lubrication neglect. That said, watch these boards for a while and you'll soon have a pretty good idea what pulls well.

As for what will clear 18" radius curves, well, that's better now than when you were modeling years ago. The general rules are four-wheel truck diesels and four- or six-coupled steamers, most freight cars and 60' or shorter passenger cars. However, those rules can be stretched because many larger locos will handle those curves although they won't look exactly graceful doing so. But they'll do it. Longer passenger cars are still a problem on 18".

Why not go to 22" radius curves? You can fit these on a 4'x8' sheet of plywood (but with scary cliffs along both sides of the loop). You'll have to put your railroad "inside" of your mainline but that can work okay, particularly if your son is young and you want to keep things simple.
                                                                                                                                                -- D

[jonathan]

Do you have your heart set on the 4-6-0?

I might suggest considering the 2-8-0 Consolidation as an alternative.  It has plenty of pulling power, can handle 18" radius curves easily, and is quite economical, especially if you shop on line or hit a large train show.  There is a sound option available, although a little pricier than the straight dual mode, DCC version.

I find the 2-8-0 to be one of the best steam models offered by anyone.  Do I sound biased?

Regards,

Jonathan

[bobwrgt]

The 4-6-0 I have with large drivers will pull more then the small driver version. Should be no problem with 18 in radius.
To push it to the limit adjust the pressure on the front truck to lighten it and add Bull Frog Smot. Like a traction tire.
The 2-8-0 is a better pulling engine for 18 in.
If you can i would consider going to 22 inch also as you will have more choices and less operating problems.
I do have 18in radius on one line that is sectional track. It is simple, smooth, level and with good joints. On this line i have run {2} 2-10-2's, (4) Heavy and light mountains 4-8-2's, K-4's, 2-8-2's, and 2-10-0's with no problems at all speed. You have to have the wires correct between engine and tender.

Bob

[rs]

Thanks for the great ideas and advice!

I'm not opposed at all to a 4-6-2, 2-8-2, or 2-8-0, actually in some ways I'd prefer going with one of those, but Bachmann doesn't seem to make those configurations available with sound pre-installed.  They do offer the 4-8-4 "J" class and 2-6-6-2, and I think the 2-10-0 and Light 2-10-2, but I think those locos will be too much for our 18" radius layout.  I'm working under the assumption that it's more economical (and definitely more convenient) to get sound pre-installed than to try to do it myself later - maybe I'm wrong about that.

@Jonathan - you said you've seen the 2-8-0 with the sound option - I can't find anything on Bachmann's site but it looks like there was at one time a #84503 that seems to have been discontinued.  Is that what you were referring to?

@Bob - that's good to hear that you've been able to run 2-10-2's, 4-8-2's, etc. on your 18" radius line - I'll have to look into that.

We are planning to switch to DCC over the next year, and it sounds like it would be wise to reconfigure our layout to use 22" curves as well.  I have the number of a local train shop that fixes & restores HO scale locos, I'll have them take a look at our old 4-6-2 and see what it would take to replace the motor and upgrade to DCC.  I'm guessing that it might not be practical to do that.

[ACY]

My 4-8-2 heavy mountain pulls great, but will not run at all on 18" radius, although his may have run fine of 18" radius, that does not necessarily mean yours will, no two locos are exactly the same. There are many reasons why one could have two seemingly identical locos and each have a different tolerance for sharp curves.

[bobwrgt]

ACY
Look at your track to see if it is level and smooth. Use the last hole in the drawbar and reposition the wires between engine and tender.
The distance between the inside rails on my curve is 35 inches. I have 4 heavy mountains, 3 light mountains, and 2 2-10-2's that run with no problems at all speeds.
Look for dips in your rails or if it is not level side to side as well as front to back.

Bob

[ACY]

I tested it on both brand new NS E-Z track and new NS Atlas snap track that I got from sets. This was a few years ago. I took it to my friend who owns one of my LHS and he could not find anything wrong with it. It is just because there are some quirks about Bachmann locos where the wheelbases do not all have the same rigidity.

[Pacific Northern]

For those who have limited space and find the 22" radius track too wide for comfort on 4' x 8' layouts there is an alternative.

Some time ago on this board some posted that they were using a mixture of 18" and 22" E-Z track on their layout, the layout was  4' x 8'.

They used 7 pieces of track for each end, 4 - 22" radius and 3-18" radius pieces, starting with a 22" piece and alternating with the 18" and ending with the 22".

I tried this on my test track which is mounted on a 3/4" 4' x 8' plywood sheet mounted in my garage. I is attached to the wall with hinges and swings up when I need to use it.

I have both of the Bachmann 4-6-0's and I run them on my 2% grades with a set of 4 of the Rivarossi 60' heavy weight cars. The engine with the 63" drivers has no problems at all, the engine with the 52" drivers will on occassion will start to slip, however that makes running the engine that much more fun.

[uncbob]

Go with 22 on the 4x8

Use plexiglass around the edges that are not against a wall

It will handle 4-8-2s and 2-8-2 and they have great pulling power

The 2-8-0 is also a great runner but I love the look of the USRAs

Never did get used to the looks of the 2-8-0 though I do run one  

Here is a pic of my old 4x8 with 18 and 22 and plexiglass

[rs]

Thanks to all again for the great advice & ideas.  I decided to take my old Union Pacific 4-6-2 to a shop and see what they could do with it.  They believe the issues are minimal, so we're definitely looking forward to having it back up and running.  While I was there I took a look at their selection of HO steam locos, which was impressive, and nice surprise - they had a few new/unwrapped Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0's w/DCC & Sound.  Haven't been able to find them anywhere online.  They had a display model that I tested out and I ended up buying one of the new ones.  Runs, pulls, and sounds great, even on my DC setup.

If my son stays interested we'll probably start converting over to a DCC setup in a couple years.  I've been reading everything I can find on DCC, including everything at wiringfordcc.com, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what it will take.

In the meantime, we're going to run the 2-8-0 on our existing DC setup.  We do need to pick up a new suitable power pack though, our old one (~40 yrs old), which uses pulse power, is apparently verboten for running this train on DC.  The only power pack I could find that explicitly states it uses filtered non-pulse DC is the Atlas Right Track Power Pack, but it's pretty bare bones.  I like some of the MRC packs but according to the guys at MRC they use pulse power at lower voltages.  Any suggestions on a DC pack that outputs filtered/non-pulse power would be welcome.  It would be great to find something with a momentum feature.

By the way, highly recommend Nicholas Smith Trains in Broomall PA, great shop and excellent service.

[jettrainfan]

GET A 2-8-0! pulling power is decent, looks excellent with a anthern express reefer and a 4 pack of roundhouse coaches. (Everyone at the club layout i go to loved it when i ran it.)