Ho and DCC.. I NEED HELP!!

[New ChooChoo]

      Ok Here's what I have. I have a Bachmann steam engine and tender with DCC onboard. It is a Southern Pacific  Daylight GS4 4-8-4. Inside the tender is all the DCC stuff. It has a decoder Bachmann# 44915 which is DCC only. So to upgrade this to SOUND I just need to get a sound decoder with the 8 pin plug and remove the other decoder and plug the new one in? Of course I need to get a speaker too and the bottom of the tender already has the holes in it.  The other locos are not DCC ready. Just DC and I know there is more to it to upgrade those...isolating the motor,wiring for power pickup etc.... Am I on the right track?

[simkon]

If a loco is not DCC ready then it will not have an 8-pin socket, then any decoder will suffice. You will need to soldier the wires to the appropriate connections, but aside from that you don't need anything else.

[jward]

that is not exactly true.

dcc ready means the locomotive in question has the motor isolated from the chassis in a way that a decoder won't short out. the loco may or may not have a dcc socket in it.

locos not dcc ready do not have the frame isolated from the motor. in these older locomotives, the frame was often used as a ground connection for the motor, and was a direct connection through the wheelsets to one of the rails. to install a decoder in one of these locomotives, you must break the connection between the motor and chassisand insulate it before you can install a decoder. on some locomotives (athearn, older bachmann spectrum) this is easy to do. on others it can be a nightmare. some older atlas locomotives, for example, had the motor mounted to the chassis with metal screws and you have to find another way of securing the motor.

don't ever try to install a decoder in a loco not dcc ready until you are sure you have isolated the motor.

[simkon]

that is not exactly true.
dcc ready means the locomotive in question has the motor isolated from the chassis in a way that a decoder won't short out. the loco may or may not have a dcc socket in it.

I am well aware that the motor needs to be isolated, he did not ask what he needed to do he just asked what he needs as far as tools/materials/components are required. He did not ask how to go about doing it, so I didn't answer that.

[Jim Banner]

New Choo Choo,
I sounds like you are right on track.  Only question I have is about your DCC on board locomotive being DCC only.  I was under the impression that all Bachmann decoders were dual mode - both DCC and dc.  Is it possible that dc operation has been turned off in CV29 in this particular unit?

If a loco is not DCC ready then it will not have an 8-pin socket, then any decoder will suffice.

Sorry to say, it is not quite that easy to select a decoder.  Just any decoder will NOT suffice.  The decoder you select must:
(1) physically fit the installation.
(2) be electrically capable of supporting the motor and accessory loads
(3) have the control characteristics that you want (you might consider this optional but I don't.)

There are some great little decoders available but they have limited current capabilities.  To determine whether or not you can use them, you should do a stall current test, particularly if your locomotives are older and have already seen a bunch of running hours.  Usually the somewhat larger, higher current decoders will still fit in a steam locomotive's tender, but you need to check.

What features you need to control your locomotive the way you want to is up to you.  If you like low speed running and/or switching, then BEMF control will bring out the best in your locomotives but it requires that you have or have access to a DCC system capable of programming the CVs.  Speed tables are great if you want to match locomotive speeds for double or triple heading.  Extra function outputs are nice if you want to add cab interior lights, under cab lights, fire box flicker, etc.  And so on.  Bottom line, just any decoder will NOT suffice.

Best of luck with your installations and if you have further questions, don't be afraid to ask!

Jim

[New ChooChoo]

 Oops!! Sorry. Yes the engine I have will operate in DC and DCC. I have the Bachmann EZ Command system and it seems to be just enough for me at this time. I have run a DC engine with it and it didnt have alot of power, BUT when I run a DCC engine with it, the difference is amazing. So much more power!!
   The tender with the GS4 has enough room for a sound upgrade. I dont think the Bachmann EZ Command can handle setting CV's?? I just want to make sure I get a sound decoder with the 4449 sound and whistle. I am not to concerned about setting the CV's at this time. I will keep asking questions to stay on the right track. Thanks for the help!

[Jim Banner]

No, the E-Z Command is not designed for setting CVs.  It is a basic, introductory system that can only set the address and the forward direction of the locomotive.  And while E-Z Command can run a dc locomotive, it will generally not run it as well as it would run on dc.

Jim

p.s. you are welcome!

[New ChooChoo]

Hey Jim Banner!

     So tell me this: when I buy a DCC decoder with sound, the Bachmann EZ Command will be able to control the chuffing, whistle and bell along with the lights? I see that most of the sound Decoders have multiple whistles etc... will I be able to select which one I want my engine to use?
   I used to have O Scale trains with sound and it all seemed so much simpler! I am learning as I go and reading up on all the different types of decoders that are out there. Asking questions here has been a big help.

[Jim Banner]

Selecting which whistle is active is done by setting a CV.  So while the choice is there, an E-Z Command cannot help you select it.  The Dynamis and many other can.  The E-Z Command can blow the whistle (either the default whistle or whatever whistle you select by changing the appropriate CV with a different DCC system), it can turn the bell on and off, it can turn the lights on and off and dim them if the decoder is set for dimming, and it can turn the sound on or mute it.  The chuffing is automatic.    In some decoders, you can time the chuff rate by a switch activated by each turn of a drive axle.  Others do the job electronically and do the job surprisingly well if the decoder uses BEMF control (and has it turned on.)  Some decoders even vary the timbre or nature of the sound by comparing the speed of the wheels to the voltage applied to the motor.  If the locomotive can reach the speed your throttle is calling for by applying relative little voltage to the motor, then the chuff sound is more the ssh ssh ssh sound of a lightly loaded engine.  But if the motor needs a lot of voltage to reach speed, then the chuff sound is more like the bark of a heavily loaded engine.

Some other sounds that may be available depending on the make and model of the sound decoder are the air compressor keeping up pressure for the brake lines, the dynamo starting up and whining when you turn the lights on, the whoosh of blowing down the boiler to get the mud out, the sound of the pop valve (safety valve) opening up, the sound of shoveling coal into the firebox, the sound of an air powered grease gun during station stops, the sound of opening the water hatch on the tender and filling the tank with water, and so on.  Typically, the relative loudness of all these sounds and how often and under what conditions they occur can all be adjusted by setting CVs.  With the proper settings, you can determine which 9 sound effects the function buttons on an E-Z Command will control.  Others can be set to occur automatically, as a station stops.

There are also simpler, less expensive sound decoders that have one chuff sound, one whistle sound and one bell sound and while they are not as versatile as the fancier ones I have been talking about, they still add sound.

What blows my mind on sound decoders is that we can buy a top end sound decoder like the Tsunamis that Bachmann uses for around $100.  For that price it includes a high quality motion decoder to drive the motor and operate the lights.  And it all comes in an small, easy to install package.  Only 15 years ago, we would pay that price for a very basic decoder with no sound, no speed tables, no BEMF control, no four digit addressing, in fact, not much more than a simple, 14 speed steps plus two lights (on and off only) decoder.  In the automotive world, that would be like going from an early model T Ford to a 2011 Lincoln with all the bells and whistles in only 15 years and the price still $600.

I too remember 0-scale trains with sound, namely a whistle in the tender.  I also remember the choices - you could either blow the whistle or not blow it.  Today things are considerably more complicated by having a vast array of choices and having to figure out which ones we want.  And we still have the simplest of all choices - to have sound or to not have sound.

Jim

[New ChooChoo]

  So what would you recommend I get to be able to set the CV's? I guess I would just need a section of test track and a controller that can program the decoder to the whistle etc that I prefer. Dont want to spend alot.

[Jim Banner]

There are many DCC systems on the market that will do the job, including Bachmann's Dynamis.  For a test track, a three foot length of flex track is all you really need.

Jim

[New ChooChoo]

   I guess for what I need, I could get the Dynamis Dcc controller.

[hawaiiho]

   I guess for what I need, I could get the Dynamis Dcc controller.

I have a Dynamis and am very happy with it.  I especially like the display as it shows all your locomotives, so it is very easy to

operate multiple trains.

The only downside is that the basic Dynamis will not read CVs.

This has not been a problem for me as I have a friend who has a unit that reads and writes CVs.

Will

[richg]

Go to the below site and email them with your request with all info about the loco.
Tell them you want sound and what do they recommend. Be advised, the Tsunami will be about $100 with a speaker.

http://www.litchfieldstation.com/DCC-University/index.htm

This fellow does have some good info on sound. He is the former owner of Litchfield. He primarily likes to work with the Tsunami.

http://www.mrdccu.com/

A couple other brands have sound at less cost but I do not know about how accurate the sounds are.
MRC are known to be problematic but a fellow in our club runs some diesels with MRC sound and has no issues. If he gets an issue he just knows how to figure a way to get the decoder running well. Some have trouble with the MRC sound decoders. MRC I think has a new line of sound decoders but I have never looked into them.
Ask Litchfield to provide the highest and lowest cost.
They have answered for me.
Free shipping over $75.00 the last I knew and good service and delivery

Rich