Williams loco treat Lionel uncoupler track as speed bumps.

[jwomble]

Purchase a new WBB S2 turbine recently. The loco is almost unuable on my O31 layout because it treats current production Lionel O31  uncoupler track sections as a giant speed bump and hops up in the air. Was told that WBB locos have no problem with the Lionel PW version of this section. Didn't WBB test the model on current production Lionel track? Npne of my other locos of other makes have this problem.

[DominicMazoch]

My WBB GG-1 jumps up at the electromagnet.  My PW 726 does the same.

Seems the new electromagnets are higher in relation to the track profile.  Older ones might just work!

[phillyreading]

Another usable uncoupling track would be K-Line's O gauge track section.
I don't have any problems with it, but has just the electromagnet in it. It won't do pre war cars, as it don't have the slide rails in it.

PS, I have found some other new Lionel stuff to be unusable as well.

Lee F.

[Joe Satnik]

Part number of the uncoupling section, please?

Thanks.

Joe Satnik

[jwomble]

5530 remote oper/uncoupler track

[Joe Satnik]

Dear All,

My postwar UCS measures almost flat (< .005") between the middle rail and the black insulator around the red bobbin. 

Also flat between the black insulator and the red bobbin. 

The step between the red bobbin and the electro-magnetic pole piece is .022" to .030", depending on exactly where I measure it how perpendicular I can get my caliper to stand. 

Top of outside rail-heads to top of E-M pole piece  about .042 to .048".

How does the newer 5530 measure?

Where exactly is what hitting?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[Joe Satnik]

Dear jwomble and Dominic,

Again,

What part of the Williams/WBB loco is hitting where on the newer Lionel 5530?  (Note the descriptions in my previous thread;  rail, insulator, bobbin, and pole.)

If you would like to help on measurements, feeler gauges and fingers would work to measure bumps/jumps on the 5530 if you don't have a caliper. 

Put the feeler gauge at the "bottom of the cliff". 

Rub your finger across the top of the cliff and the feeler gauge. 

Change gauges til you don't feel a snag in either direction. 

The last gauge used is the height of the bump/jump. 

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[Len]

Just out of curiosity I dug out my micrometer with the long anvil and checked three 5530s. I found, on average, the control rails and electromagnet 'button' are .045", or just a hair under 3/64", higher than the running rails.

Len

[Joe Satnik]

Dear All,

I have been in contact with RNF (Roger) who has been troubleshooting the interaction between his Williams locos and a Lionel UCS uncoupling/unloading track section.

I think this is what might be happening (wild guess - could be wrong) with the "speed bump" symptoms.

The center uncoupling electromagnet that pulls down the thumbtack style magnetic uncouplers is electrically connected to the two left side sliding shoe control rails: 

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/model-railroad-faq/tinplate/part2/        (Scroll down.)

The Williams/WBB center rollers are wide enough to contact and energize the control rails (by shorting the center rail to the adjacent raised control rails).   

When the rollers go over the left side center and control rails, the UCS's center electromagnet is energized, and when a thumbtack goes over, it is abruptly pulled down and then reluctantly released as the loco continues on. 

This looks like a "stumble" or "speed bump".

Another thought, is the thumb tack being pulled down early, catching its front edge on the raised center pole piece?  Probably not. 

I suppose you could confirm the wide roller shorting by connecting a volt-meter (or lamp) between pins 1 and 2 of the UCS.

Roger has had some success putting electrical tape on the control rails in strategic locations. 

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik 

[DominicMazoch]

On mine, it seems the electromagnet is higher than the center rail, and the rollers are going over it like a speed bump.  I have a PW track, and want to exchange it out.  The PW is on a siding, and only log cars go over it.  That should solve the problem, for I do have a loop with a PW track, and run the GG with NO PROBLEM

[Len]

Joe,

Did a quick check, and my Williams Geeps handle the UCS track with no problem. My SD, which has much wider P/U rollers, is doing exactly what you describe. The rollers are contacting the center rail and control rails at the same time, triggering the magnet.

I don't own an WBB S2 Turbine, which is what the OP mentioned as having the problem. Are the rollers on the S2 wide, like the SD, or narrow like the Geeps??

Len

[Joe Satnik]

Dear All,

Does anyone own an RCS (not UCS) track section and a wide roller Williams/WBB diesel or electric?  It would help in testing a few theories. 

I've been thinking about the "wide pickup roller touching the control rails" problem. 

I wonder if the wide roller is not the only culprit.   

Namely, what if the gauge of the wheels is a bit narrow, or the track gauge a little wide, allowing the truck to rotate around its bolster in the "slop" or "gap" between the flanges and the rails? 

If the rollers were right under the bolster, the rotation would have little or no effect. 

I'm pretty sure the pickup rollers are far from the bolster, meaning that any truck rotation would cause a swing in the roller from side to side.

Another problem, the traction tires.  If you have traction tires on one side of the truck, that side will pull ahead of the other (non-traction tire) side of the truck, causing rotation around the bolster, swinging the roller pickup to the side to contact one of the control rails.   

Something to think about. 

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[RNF]

Len,
As Joe mentioned, I've had some problems with UCS tracks and some of my Williams engines. They spontaneously uncouple when passing over that track section. Initially, I thought it was a coupler problem and replaced some couplers (always rear ones), but it didn't really help. I also replaced the UCS with an uncouple only section mainly because it accepts my custom wooden ties. However, my PW switchers don't work with that track, so I put back the UCS and again had problems with uncoupling. I finally discovered that the side of the pickup arm was contacting the extra rail and the center rail. Just enough to trigger the magnet. My solution was to put a piece of electrical tape over the extra rail and the problem resolved itself and my switchers still worked because their sliding shoe is on the other extra rail. However, when I ran the switchers in the other direction to PUSH a consist, the uncoupler wouldn't work because of the tape. I removed the tape and put a new piece on that left about an inch of that rail uncovered. Problem solved. No more spontaneous uncoupling of my Williams stuff and the switchers work in both directions. It was far less intrusive a solution than Dremeling down all of those pickup arms (and the tape is all but invisible).

RNF