Williams F7 Product Identification Question

[peisenmetrains]

Hello all,
I'm a relatively new convert to the Williams product line.  I'm looking for some info on an F7 (Santa Fe Red Warbonnet paint scheme).  It is listed as 4309 (product line number?) #4051 (Cab number?).  I'm coming up short in my google searches.
Can anyone provide:
1) Catalog year of the above?
2) Would the unit have the 6 amp reverse board?
3) Would the unit have TruBlast II sound?

If I told you that there is an Ebay listing for the above with a C-8 Like New rating at a buy it now price of $85 would that be a good deal (assuming of course that the C-8 is accurate...I've had limited, and mixed, results with Ebay)?
Thanks for your help. 
Paul

[Joe Satnik]

Dear Paul,

Here is the listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/WILLIAMS-O-4309-SANTA-FE-DIESEL-MOTOR-ENGINE-4051-1-/380287691809?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item588ae9ac21

The double wide box shows that it is an AA set, meaning powered A, plus dummy A.

I would want to know (from the seller) what's up with the dummy A unit, why is it not being shown, does it still exist?   

I would also want to know (from this board or 3rail) if there were specific matching B units made at that time.

3rail would know more on the internals and possible upgrades, if needed/wanted.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik 

[phillyreading]

You need to email the seller and ask him those questions!

From what I can see in the photo, it is from before the Bachmann by Williams (pre 2007) and may or may not have the current True Blast 2 horn.

Also ask if it has QSI installed? If it has QSI, it is a few years older than what he would like to say. I have a set of Sante Fe F-7's, #'s 4032, 4033 & 4034, that have the QSI sound board installed(# 4033, B unit) and they don't have T.B. 2 horn.

FYI; True Blast 2 horn has the rail crossing sequence for the horn (two long, one short, one long, blasts of the horn) and the bell sound, however only one feature at a time can be accessed, also need a transformer with both horn and whistle buttons on it.

Lee F.

[phillyreading]

Again going back a few years, the Crown Edition was put out before Bachmann took over Williams.
Also I looked at my Santa Fe set of six passenger cars and the boxes have on them 'Crown Edition', so I am willing to take a quess at that engine being over eight years old, becaue I bought them about eight years ago. If that set does have a horn, it will probally be just a basic horn in the unpowered unit.

Lee F.

[MAPA JCT]

1) Catalog year of the above?
2) Would the unit have the 6 amp reverse board?
3) Would the unit have TruBlast II sound?

I started selling WILLIAMS in 1994, and the boxes were NOT that color as shown on ebay. I'd hazard a guess they were made in mid to late 1980's.

I  have no cut off date regarding the 6 Amp board, but I'll would say if it DOES have one, it's out dated. The reverse board now used has been improved immensely starting AFTER this unit you are looking at, was made.

It definitely does NOT have TBII; horn only.

[phillyreading]

I would like to know when the Crown Edition by Williams was produced?

The Santa Fe pasenger cars that I bought were stored for a few years by an independant Williams dealer I used to know, so I can't say for sure how old they are.
Lee F.

[simkon]

Here is a quote from a website talking about the history of Williams...

During the early 1980's, Williams created its Crown Edition Line. These models were nicely detailed handmade brass scale models produced as limited-editions.

[3rail]

The model shown on the eBay listing was made in the 1980's in Korea.  They were originally sold as dual powered units.  Both units had dual motors, but there were no flywheels, no traction tires, and no sound on these units.  You would have to ask the seller the details of what he has to offer.

Regards,

3rail

[MAPA JCT]

I emailed the seller regarding if he was selling an AA set or just the one unit.

He's selling the SINGLE "A" powered unit ONLY!

[Joe Satnik]

Dear 3rail,

How were the dual powered units synchronized?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[phillyreading]

Thanks for the information on the Williams Crown Edition line!

As for being truly synchronized, the motors at best would have about the same pulling power. As for the reversing units, I don't know if they were electronic circuit boards or the older "E unit" style similar to what Lionel used.
I don't have any locomotives from the Crown Edition era, just passenger cars.

One thing that I have found to be true with the older circuit boards on the engines, they don't hold memory that long for being locked into nuetral. I am attemping to do a lighted display but have to cut the display track's center rail power to keep the older circuit boards from going out of nuetral.

Lee F.

[3rail]

Joe,

One was unit wired to start in forward the other to start in reverse.

It is easy to keep multiple units synchronized as long as you follow this rule: Press and hold the direction button for 1 FULL second AFTER the train has come to a complete stop.  There are usually a 10% +- tolerance for standard electronics, so some capacitors discharge at a different rate than others.  Waiting the full second makes sure that they are fully discharged and the reverse board advances to the next sequence.  It is important to wait for the train to come to a stop because the motors act like generators while the loco is coasting to a stop (keeping power supplied to the reverse board).



Regards,

3rail

[Joe Satnik]

Thanks.