Need help with paint schemes NYC Spectrum 4 car set.

Started by Christopher, October 19, 2010, 09:03:56 PM

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Christopher

I just received the four car set of the NYC by Spectrum for my b-day. I was wondering what year the cars were modeled after. I can't find them listed in the product information page. the car numbers are item no 89401 89402 89403 and 89404. I want to run them in the steam to diesel era. Were these cars from that period or just from the diesel era?

ABC

They were heavyweight cars and were run 99% of the time with steam power.

Guilford Guy

Many of these cars were still in use in the early diesel era. Commuter trains out of Boston on the New York Central's Boston & Albany used heavyweight coaches into the 60s. I'd be more concerned over the paint scheme. Very few (if any?) heavyweight cars received the two tone gray paint with most dressed in a dark green.
Alex


ABC

Quote from: Guilford Guy on October 19, 2010, 11:22:20 PM
Many of these cars were still in use in the early diesel era.
But not in the two tone grey livery, the heavyweights were only in the two tone grey until approximately the end of the steam era at which point they were repainted similar to Pullman green. NYC's bigger trains received new streamlined passenger cars at the beginning of the diesel era, with only the small commuter lines retaining the heavyweight cars for a few years until they could be replaced.


Pacific Northern

Your question raised my curiosity so I did some looking around.

Found a few pictures dated 1950 showing a NYC HW car in the grey two tone scheme.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-co2338arc.jpg

Another picture showing a really mixed bag of HW and streamlined in various colours including the two tone grey.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-paxtrn-arc.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-mail.jpg

You would have the option of steam or early diesel. Passenger trains would most likely be local or secondary as the "name" trains would be the pulling the newer streamlined cars.

Pacific Northern

ABC

The bottom line is this is your railroad so ultimately you can do whatever makes you happy. But if you want to be as prototypical as possible, if you use two-tone grey heavyweights stick with a steam passenger loco like a Hudson. If you repaint the cars a dark green color then you can use early diesel power. There would be a short period of time where some of the cars would be dark green and a few odd balls would still be two tone grey. If you wanted to model that period you could leave one or two cars in two tone grey, but weather them very heavily, and have the rest in a fresh dark green paint and just very lightly weathered.

Pacific Northern

Quote from: ABC on October 20, 2010, 04:06:35 PM
The bottom line is this is your railroad so ultimately you can do whatever makes you happy. But if you want to be as prototypical as possible, if you use two-tone grey heavyweights stick with a steam passenger loco like a Hudson. If you repaint the cars a dark green color then you can use early diesel power. There would be a short period of time where some of the cars would be dark green and a few odd balls would still be two tone grey. If you wanted to model that period you could leave one or two cars in two tone grey, but weather them very heavily, and have the rest in a fresh dark green paint and just very lightly weathered.

NYC Heavy Weights in dark green are older than the two tone gray. The dark green would be steam for sure.  For quite a few years just about all railroad passenger coaches were dark green.
Pacific Northern

ABC

Most NYC heavyweights started out dark green, then were painted two tone grey, then the last time they were painted-they were painted dark green to save money since they were on secondary and commuter trains and were not very important (some never were painted and were just taken out of service). By 1958 all NYC heavyweight passenger cars were removed from regular service, and in 1963 they were all either converted to MOW, baggage, or rider cars or sold (with some exceptions~about 20-30 cars*** and the total heavyweight fleet was around 900 at its peak).
After doing some research, all NYC steam was out of "regular" service by 1953 and most were retired, scrapped, or sold by 1955.

***(my apologies this was actually 20 to 30 consists, I misread what I found on the website)
Further research has found that some of these cars lasted until as long as 1969, after looking up the cars in the photo with the truck, if you zoom in as far as possible you can make out the first two numbers on one car and using that I was able to find that the car was converted to MOW in 1956 likely meaning the other cars were not be using in regular service, but you never know. Heavyweight cars lasted on the Mercury until 1958, but were not used regularly after sometime around 1954 (when the streamlined cars were serviced they would use the heavyweights if they were short on replacements). Also a lot of the heavyweights were sold to other railroads like the B&M and were never painted for their new new owner, so it is possible that some of those pictures you see are of cars in NYC livery, but not actually owned by the NYC anymore, so the cars would still be in service, but not with the NYC system, which may be a possibility in the photo with the 1960 truck. Some heavyweights cars were rebuilt right after WWII and into the early 50's and the chart listed them differently and did not consider them true heavyweights, but these saw use up until the end in some fashion whether it be as a MOW, baggage, privately owned, or as a business or commuter car on another railroad, some are listed as being in use from 1953-1973, but none were owned by the NYC after 1969 except ones saved for display and et cetera.
So if you are modeling the NYC and want to use them in regular big name passenger service your cut off would be 1954. If modeling a NYC owned commuter line then your cutoff would be the early 1960's. If modeling a non-NYC owned commuter then you could go to 1973. Also if you are modeling a commuter then there would not be any observation or diner cars in the consist as it would mainly be baggage cars, combines, and coaches. This may not be the right choice for you since you have the four car set and would not be able to use two cars, but you could always "make an excuse/story" for why you are doing what you are doing.

r0bert

Quote from: Pacific Northern on October 20, 2010, 03:54:41 PM
Your question raised my curiosity so I did some looking around.

Found a few pictures dated 1950 showing a NYC HW car in the grey two tone scheme.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-co2338arc.jpg

Another picture showing a really mixed bag of HW and streamlined in various colours including the two tone grey.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-paxtrn-arc.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-mail.jpg

You would have the option of steam or early diesel. Passenger trains would most likely be local or secondary as the "name" trains would be the pulling the newer streamlined cars.


as a  time reference, the truck in the 3rd pic is a 1960 chevy.

Pacific Northern

rObert

Good eye. Shows what obviously is a back woods secondary line. Good to know that the HW's were still being used in 1960.
Pacific Northern

Woody Elmore

When in high school I went on a trip to Montreal with a number of classmates. The train left GCT, followed the river north and went to Canada where we switched trains. The NYC consist was a mixed bag of streamlined and HW cars. We rode in a D&H heavy coach, painted in dark blue with dark grey along the windows, complete with clerestory roof and lights so dim that candles would have been brighter. As I remember there were no two cars the same in the train! I remember being pulled into Canada by a Napierville Junction locomotive.

The NY is a great railroad to model - they ran all kinds of equipment. The Railway Express (kind of FedEx on rail) operated their own baggage cars and they were often found in  the front of the train. They had many sidings in Manhattan where trucks could pull up to the cars and get loaded. There was also an extensive facility in the Bronx near the old Yankee Stadium.

As the man said, it's your railroad and if you want to pull your NYC painted Pennsy coaches behind a UP DD-40, that's up to you.

Modeling the end of steam on the NYC is a lot of fun. They had first generation diesels, Hudsons, Mohawks and Niagra steam locomotives.  A little research can help. I'm sure there must be books out there about the NYC.

Doneldon

Christopher-

The two-tone gray paint job on the NYC is very classy.  It's the one I'd go with, but that's just my opinion.

                                                                                                                        -- D

Woody Elmore

iI agree - the NYC two tone scheme was outstanding and probably very expensive to apply and maintain. Didn 't the SP Lark have two tonw grey? The cars were light grey cars with a darker band along the window. The reverse of the NYC scheme. The UP also used two tone grey. Always very snazzy.

Growing up on the west side of Manhattan, I lived near the big NYC west side yard. I saw two tone freight engines there all the time. Howver, one day I rode my bike down to the yard and saw the first NYC GP-20s - all black with a white frame stripe and the cigar band herald on the nose. I thought they looked great. It was the beginning of the end which would ultimately end in the (gasp, I try never to use the name) Penn Central.