REVISIT of the Bachmann Tender swaps

[Steam is King]

Hey Y'all,

I've done a little research here on the board and I understand the method of madness that comes with the tender swapping.

I have three undecorated Lt. Mountain 4-8-2's, that I want to match up to the medium Vanderbilt Tenders. These should be plug and play according to the data given. Same with the 2-8-0's.

If I understand correctly, if I want to run a VB Tender (med) behind a 4-6-0, I have to swap the tender board out of the tender on the 4-6-0's tender and put it in the VB, although it may need some surgery. (I have the 2-10-0 style).

I'm going to run a mix of coal and oil on my SABRR. I love Vanderbilt Tenders so I have to have a few. Is there anything I need to do to make the back up light on the VB's work properly?

Also, has anyone managed to swap out a tender on the SY 2-8-2? I know it has that funky draw bar, but I have to believe it can be done. That engine would look so much nicer with a medium coal or VB behind it. Has anyone swapped out the tender wheels on the SY as well to get rid of the spokes? Or maybe even trucks all together?

Thanks!

Manny

[ABC]

The back up light will work without any modifications. Also, even though a tender may be compatible with a certain loco, you should always take the loco's original board for better running characteristics as Jonathan has witnessed and can attest to when he put the Vandy long tenders behind the 4-8-2s he took the original boards and transplanted them into the vandy tenders.

[richg]

The back up light will work without any modifications. Also, even though a tender may be compatible with a certain loco, you should always take the loco's original board for better running characteristics as Jonathan has witnessed and can attest to when he put the Vandy long tenders behind the 4-8-2s he took the original boards and transplanted them into the vandy tenders.

In my case I could not swap boards. I have the small driver 4-6-0 that comes with the small coal tender.
I wanted to run the medium USRA tender at times but needed to use the two short jumpers that come with the medium tender. The two jumpers swapped each pair of wires. I had to rewire the tender and add a resistor for the loco headlight.
Last, I had to cut a cooper trace on the bottom of the PC board that is used to dim the headlight when the loco is backing up. Not prototypical.
If I ever put a light on the tender, I will need the pin on the 8 pin NMRA connector.
Yampa Bob sometime ago mentioned that PC board connection needs to be cut.

Rich

[ABC]

I was talking about tenders that are "compatible" those that are "non-compatible" do require a little bit of work.

[richg]

I was talking about tenders that are "compatible" those that are "non-compatible" do require a little bit of work.

Bachmann fails to call out that discrepancy. Only the users do. I see this issue elsewhere at times.
Some user are not aware of the compatible/non-compatible issue.
There are a few who will never take time to read this thread.

Rich

[Atlantic Central]

Manny,

The following is a copy of something I posted on this subject several years ago:

Tender Swap – Bachmann medium Vanderbilt oil tender (Item #89905) with 63" driver 10 wheeler (Item #82307)

Initial test using jumpers provided with the tender – dead short, no operation.

Original plan – move 10 wheeler circuit board into new tender. This proved unworkable for several reasons, 10 wheeler circuit board too large and wires too short to fit into Vanderbilt tender without major modifications to both the tender and the circuit board.

New plan – can existing circuit board from Vanderbilt tender be rewired to work with 10 wheeler. A simple examination of both circuit boards revealed that while different, they both have the same basic connections, so the problem must lie in pin assignments in the connectors.

Tracing wires and a few simple checks revealed that the two wire connector simply brings the loco pickups to the circuit board. Reversing the wires on one end of the two wire jumper corrected this. Now the loco runs but in the wrong direction.

Two of the wires on the four wire plug are the motor leads. Reversing them gave us correct operational direction.

This only left the front headlight. The circuit board in the Vanderbilt tender is for the 2-8-0 which has 12 volt lamps for lighting. The 10 wheeler uses LED's, this is the main reason the circuit board is different. Rather than trying to modify the circuit, I simply replaced the loco headlight LED with a 12 volt lamp.

Additionally I added weight to the Vanderbilt tender bringing it weight to about 5 oz. and replaced all couplers with genuine Kadee #148 on both the loco front and tender.

Result – loco now converted, runs well with original 10 wheeler draw bar and looks great.  

This issue seems to be tied to what tender cam with what loco in the first place. I do not have all of the Bachmann spectrum locos, but from what I have seen, read and experienced, the following may be a good beginning of a compatibility chart:

Light Mountain & Consolidation will work with all of the "medium" tenders.

Heavy Mountain and 2-6-6-2 will work with the long coal tender, hicken tender and long vandy tender

Russian shares same tender with some 10 wheelers, so I am guessing they share the same circuit board.

The 10 wheeler is really a wild card here because it comes with three different tenders, depending on roadname. Some have the low, small "pre 1900" looking tender, some have the small tender from the Russian and one has the same tender as the consolidation, but obviously with a different circuit board.

But again, I think most of these differences are just the pin assignments and the type of headlight.


NOW, hopefully you read and understood all that. Your are correct, the 2-8-0 and Light Mountain tenders do interchange.

The best way in my opinion to put the vandy behind the 2-6-0 is as I discribed above - that will preserve all the wiring to the backup light - mine work just fine.

While others disagree for whatever reasons, I consider it easier and better to simply rewire the pin assignments and change headlight lamps when needed to complete various tender swaps rather than hack up the board or the interior of the tender to swap boards.

I have done a wide variety of tendr swaps and use Bachmann tenders behind a number of ather brands of locos, always keeping the orginal circuit board in the tender.

Examples:

Broadway Limited 2-8-2 with spectrum long haul tenders

Broadway Limited N$W class A 2-6-6-4 with Bachmann C&O 2-8-4 tender

Several brass locos with various long haul tender versions from the 2-10-2

Spectrum 2-8-0 wih clear vision tender from 2-10-2

Sheldon

[jonathan]

Manny,

Since my name was mentioned, I would be remiss if I didn't weigh in on the subject.

You are getting some good advice here.

Let me qualify my work by telling you I could switch a standard long tender with a Vanderbilt tender, with no extra work, and the loco would run fine.  However, it would not run with the same characteristics:  starting and stopping voltage and speed. 

It was important to me that the locos run the same way with the original tenders.  I double-head my locos on a regular basis.  I found that switching out the tender PC boards kept the same characteristics.  The speeds are so closely matched, that I can double-head my 4-8-2s with each other, OR  my 2-8-0 consolidations with my 4-8-2s, OR I can throw my 2-8-2 Mike into the mix as well.  That is why I switched out the boards.

I cannot tell you why the Vandy's ran a little differently with the original boards.

Also, I run DC, so I wired my backup lights to the dummy plug and added a diode, using an incandescent bulb.  That's personal taste.  It is not necessary for the Vandy tenders.  The back up light will work without that extra work.

Theoretically, the tender swaps should be plug-and-play.  If I weren't so picky about running speeds, it would have been so.

In case your wondering, switching out boards is not hard, but it is delicate work.  I went slowly and methodically.  Didn't want to break or lose any parts on the board or the tenders.  A few jewellers screwdrivers is all you need.

That'll be two cents.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Atlantic Central]

Jonathan,

They ran slightly differently because some runs od tenders have different values of noise suppression capactiors.

For the best DC performance these capacitors should be removed from ALL Bachmann tenders, then you will see no change in perfromance, and ALL you locos  will have better slow speed operation.

Sheldon

[jonathan]

Sheldon,

I have clipped the capacitors in my Mountains.  And it did improve their performance.

I did not clip the capacitors in my Connies or my 2-8-4 Kanawha.  Since all my B'Mann Steamers now run at the same speed, I have been reluctant to clip the capacitors in my other locos.  I will try the 0-8-0 next (formerly a 2-8-0).

Thanks for that. 

Manny, these guys have more experience with this stuff than I do.  I trust their advice and judgement.  I learned a great deal by reading the entire forum history.  It takes a while, but many threads are immensely helpful.  Some experts no longer post.  But some, like Sheldon have been around since the start of this forum.  I'm just saying...

Regards,

Jonathan
 

[Atlantic Central]

Jonathan,

Removing the capacitors from the 2-8-0's will show a BIG improvement in slow starting and slowest speed. It does not seem to effect overall speed matching with other locos.

Same is true of the 2-8-4.

The capacitors raise the starting voltage of the motor and negate any automatic "pulse power" effect that may be built in to whatever throttles you are using. Removing them corrects these problems.

Sheldon

[jonathan]

Manny,

You mentioned having some Light Mountains on hand.  Have you set one those tenders behind the 2-8-2 SY just to see how it looks?  This should give you an idea of the size tender you want to use as a replacement.

The SY tender looks like a switcher tender to me.  If you are thinking of bashing the SY to look more like an older Mikado, this may be a place to start.  I have a couple of Heavy Mountain tenders I'm not using if you want to experiment a little bit.  Send me a personal ("jonathan") if you're thinking along those lines.  If not, no worries.

As you seem to be planning on replacing a number of tenders,  I would think replacing the spoked wheels, or trucks, should be pretty straight forward.

Sheldon,

You got me excited about clipping capacitors.  Will try it, one loco at a time.  Thanks again.

Regards,

Jonathan

[rogertra]

As some of you know, I have swapped several Spectrum tenders between various types of Spectrum locos.  Usually I replace the very long tenders with shorter ones I've swapped with another member of this board who prefers the really long tenders.  I've even attached P2k 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 tenders to Spectrum engines and kitbashed an "unknown origin" slope back tender ride behind my P2K 0-6-0 to replace the one now riding behind one of my Spectrum 2-8-0s.

I also shorten even the Spectrum short tender by one panel as even the shortest Spectrum coal tender looks too long compared to most Canadian tenders.  The most complex kitbash was to convert some Spectrum "Hicken" oil tenders to shorter coal tenders for use behind 2-10-2s and 4-8-2s.

The other reason for shortening and swapping tenders is so they all GER steam locos can fit onto a 90ft Walthers "Ready Built" turntable.  This happened in real life when railways didn't want to go to the extra cost of replacing turntable to accommodate longer steam locos.    The largest power on the GER are two classes of 2-10-2 and two classes of Heavy 4-8-2.  Both of these fit, just, onto the 90ft 'table.

[jonathan]

Roger,

I have visited you photoalbum more than once, as I appreciate your creativity and the general look of your layout.

I'm particularly interested in the 371 series of photos.  You have a Consolidation with a tender, configured very much with a tender I would like to put behind my converted 0-8-0.  It looks just like a switcher tender the B&O used on most of it's converted 0-8-0's.

Did you make that one?  How? (I know, the answer would be too long) I like it a lot (sic).

Regards,

Jonathan

[Steam is King]

Manny,

You mentioned having some Light Mountains on hand.  Have you set one those tenders behind the 2-8-2 SY just to see how it looks?  This should give you an idea of the size tender you want to use as a replacement.

The SY tender looks like a switcher tender to me.  If you are thinking of bashing the SY to look more like an older Mikado, this may be a place to start.  I have a couple of Heavy Mountain tenders I'm not using if you want to experiment a little bit.  Send me a personal ("jonathan") if you're thinking along those lines.  If not, no worries.

As you seem to be planning on replacing a number of tenders,  I would think replacing the spoked wheels, or trucks, should be pretty straight forward.

Sheldon,

You got me excited about clipping capacitors.  Will try it, one loco at a time.  Thanks again.

Regards,

Jonathan

Hey Jonathan,

I pulled out my SY this morning and a Medium Vanderbilt tender. The tender is way taller than the cab of the SY when you put it behind it. It doesn't look right. With the SY I'm afraid only the 1900 tender, or the Russian tender will work. Others will be taller than the cab and will not look right. I guess the SY is really a very small Mikado.

[Steam is King]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I appreciate it. I just got my first 2-8-0 the other day. I hope to add a few more. I may not swap tenders around, but I will be adding Blackstone's Doghouse. I'd like to put the VB behind the 4-8-2's.