Positive experience after key fix for Bmann's HO 2-8-4

[K487]

I've been running diesels (DC) for 17 years and thought I'd try a modern steam locomotive (still DC).  Instead of running a train pulled by just the steam locomotive I would couple it in front of the diesels in a freight train like the real railroads sometimes do when moving a steam locomotive light from point A to B to get it to a passenger train to pull an excursion for railfans. 

A couple of months ago I purchased a Bachmann 2-10-2.  I liked the locomotive but it had multiple drive axles with the drive wheels not square, so it wobbled.  And it was a little touchy at a point or two on my track work.  So I returned it and eventually ordered and received a Bachmann Pere Marquette 2-8-4.  The first thing I did was to remove the 8-pin plug on the DCC board and install the two enclosed dummy plugs.

This steam locomotive has worked fine after I (a) lubed it (didn't need it very much), (b) slightly loosened (two full turns) and very lightly loctited the screw holding in the lead truck.  The problem was that when tightened all the way (which is the way it arrived) the screw head gave the truck a very narrow vertical range in which to move.  No derailments at all now.  And (c):

The locomotive by itself weighs 12 oz. I believe, but whatever, the point is it is light on its feet.  Whenever I tried coupling it with a pair of Bachmann or Atlas Trainman locos to pull a train the steam locomotive's drivers would always slip (start off spinning and stay spinning.)  Also, not helping things is the fact that the loco's longitudinal center of gravity is just in front of the third driving axle (a little too far back for best traction.)  With the added torque of the motor this makes the front-end relatively light and helps the drivers spin. 

So, all in all I thought that if I could put about 3 oz. of additional weight in the forward part of the boiler (a) the traction would greatly improve, (s) its drivers wouldn't spin, and (c) the diesel/steam lashups would pull together nicely.  Usually this kind of planning is often wishful thinking on my part, but it worked!  First time I tried something like this.

I couldn't figure out how to open/remove the smoke box front (without tearing something up), so I did find the three screws holding the boiler/cab on – it was easy; nice design.  I cut some old railcar weights into two pieces about 2.5" long and ½" wide, the top one narrower than the lower one (because the boiler rounds and narrows up) and glued them in front of the motor on another built-in chassis weight.  I added and glued in a ¼ oz. lead weight right in front of the motor (not plugging any air holes.)  That left the 1" long area in the smoke box, which only had the LED headlight with resistors in it. 

I read that you can bend the LED "wires" so I bent them up at a 90 degree angle (the LED just slides into the headlight; easy to pull out.)  After putting the LED back in the headlight I took some metal bbs (got them at Walmart), put them in a cut-down sandwich bag (very thin plastic), wadded it into a "ball," then test-fitted it into the smoke box.  Had to remove bbs twice.  I then added a little bit of caulk in the bag, closed the bag, mushed the bbs and caulk around, used a small piece of wire to close the bag, then form-fitted the wad into the smoke box front around the LED assembly.  It fit perfect and the headlight still works.  As the caulk dries it will get harder but stay flexible.  And if needed the form-fitted weight can easily be removed.

All in all I got 2.5 oz. of additional weight in the loco. This brought the longitudinal center of gravity toward the front of the loco – from originally right in front of the 3rd driver axle to just behind the 2nd drive axle.

Test time:  I took turns putting the locomotive on the front of 3 different trains – each with over 50 cars and each with two mu'd diesel engines.  Train 1 Bachmann FT A&B.  Train 2 two Bachman GP30s.  Train 3 two Atlas Trainman RS36s.

I like the results and they are interesting.  On all three trains the steam locomotive runs about the same exact speed of the diesels now (no slipping of course.)  On the trains with the Bachmann FTs and Atlas RS36s the diesels actually just slightly PUSH the steam locomotive.  On the train with the Bachmann GP30s the steam loco actually PULLS the diesels just a little.  I can see all this by watching the couplers' spacing between the tender and lead diesel as they move.

Am I worried about burning out the motor with this additional weight?  No, especially with no pulling a load behind it, and all the tracks are flat (no grades.)

You all have probably been-there-done-all-this but I wanted to share a success.

Doug

[bobwrgt]

Very nice.  All to often today everyone wants just Ready to run equipment out of the box. Few take the time to try different methods.
How has your modification worked with the steam running alone?

Bob

[Atlantic Central]

Doug,

I have five Bachmann 2-8-4's that I am converting into freelance 2-8-2's.

Here is a photo one before it went to the paint shop.



I have added about 5 oz to each of these locos with a great increase in pulling power and no adverse effects. Each loco now weighs 17 oz or better. My nearly 40 years of experiance in this hobby shows me it is unlikely that this additional weight would/could cause any problem.

These locos will each now pull 35 NMRA weighted cars on level track. All of my cars are also fitted with my own design/formula for free rolling and smooth tracking trucks.

I also plan to experiment with adding "Bull Frog Snot" traction tires to these locos.

To add the weight, I filled both domes with lead pellets and epoxyed them in place. Than used stick on lead weights to add weight between the gearbox and existing boiler weight (1/2 oz), above the boiler weight (1.5 oz - had to file this one to fit) and in the smoke box (1 oz). I also added 1/2 oz to the inside of the firebox.

I also add about 2 oz to the tenders to improve backing with long trains.

I too run DC and remove the decoders, also there are capacitors on the factory circuit board that are across the motor leads for radio noise suppression. I remove them as well which greatly improves slow speed performance.

Sheldon

[K487]

Bob:

Thanks. 

To answer your question, another poster on another board we both are members of said he could pull 50 cars with his now-newly-weighted 2-8-4.  This got my curiosity up so I coupled my 2-8-4 by itself to one of my trains - 51 cars.  It started off slipping, catching, slipping and then got the train moving and pulled it around the 50' loop.  I'm not sure if it was slipping a little or not while doing this; hard to tell.  I do know that sort of like real trains once one of my trains has run a bit (after sitting for hours or more) it seems a bit easier to pull (axle bearings get re-lubed or better-lubed, maybe warmed up a bit, etc.)  No BFS on any drivers.

Sheldon: 

You out did me.  I didn't think about putting weights in the domes; I might do that - easily done.  And I might put some weight in the firbox - didn't think of that either.  As it stands now the loco satisfies me, but....

Good idea on the tender.

Do let us know if you add some BFS to a couple of drivers.   It would probably be best if you tell us what your loco CAN'T pull with this combo - the list would be shorter.

I will look for what I hope are the capacitors on the loco board that are across the power leads and cut them out.  Thanks for the tip.

That "large" single axle trailing truck kind of changes the looks of the locomotive.  Instead of a nice and sleek look it looks a more like a workhorse.


Doug

[Atlantic Central]

Doug,

The conversion is based on the DT&I 800 class built by LIMA the same time they were building all those Berks.

Here is a photo link: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dti/dti-s800.jpg

The DT&I locos had 63" drivers and were smaller than the Berks, but they had all the same modern design advancements. And based on my study, LIMA could have built a Mike as big as the Berks with 69" drivers for roads like the C&O or PRR who had heavy rail mainlines. So my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL has them.

Sheldon

[jonathan]

Gents,

Forgive me for chiming in.  I also have a Berk, Kanawha actually (C&O).  I was planning to add weight, and appreciate the tips on possible locations.  This may be the first newer loco in which I add BFS.  Seems like a strong loco, but the wheel spin is a problem.  Since I double-head usually, I don't worry too much about it.  Thanks for the free advice.

Sheldon,

Checked out the modified Berk you are following for your kitbash.  Very cool project.  I'm having trouble focusing on the front of your loco. Did you move the headlight onto the smoke box?  If so, how did you mount the bulb?  I'm fishing for a new idea.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Atlantic Central]

Jonathan,

The Nickle Plate and Pre Marquette versions have the headlight on the smokebox, not low mounted like the C&O.

The other two versions also have smaller tenders and smaller cabs per their prototypes. It is hard to see in photos, but sit the two models next to each other and their a lot of differences.

Sheldon

[K487]

Sheldon:

Thanks for the link to that DT&I Mike.  That's a fine photo and one serious-looking loco.  And it looks like you're doing a very credible job imitating it.

I'm kind of partial to Mikes.  When I was in my mid- to late-20s I spent two years (part of 1973 into 1975) working for the C&TS RR in Chama NM and I fired those K36s (#480 series) Mikes from Chama (elev. 7,800') 16 miles up the 4% grade to Cumbres Pass (elev. 10,015') many, many times.  Also fired the 487 for one of the steam powered rotary snow plow trips (fired the rotary on another trip also) and fired (and ran the loco a little when the engineer let me; I was scared and excited) from Chama NM to Antonito CO (64 miles.)

Doug

[jonathan]

Sheldon and Doug,

Per your comments, I added 2oz. to my Berk; in the smokebox, in the domes, and in that little space just in front of the cab.  Prior to the weight, it would start to slip pulling 22 cars up a 1% grade. After the weight, well, I stopped at 33 cars.  Great upgrade!

Thanks,

Jonathan

[lmackattack]

Hi Guys.

Doug was talking about my 2-8-4 Loco that has pulled 51 cars on the flat. ( 40'-50' freight cars with all metal IM wheels). up 1% grades its at about 40 cars at 1.5-1.75% about 34 cars)I added weight in every place I could find. Dome.boiler cab etc.. biggest issue I had was getting more weight forward of the driver centers. At one point the loco was doing a wheelie with all the extra cab weight I had added. It was still pulling but as soon as it started to slip it would pull the front 2 drivers off the rails. I have not weighed the loco but its heavy. I found the stock Bachmann DCC motor decoder is not up to the task of a train this heavy. It needed about 30% throttle just to get moving and then it just took off running. So I added an ESU micro motor decoder and now this loco will crawl with a 40 car train at speed step 1/128. I had a QSI decoder in it with this vid below but the BEMF was so bad that I put the ESU back in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqBgNLUQQBQ


I did try bullfrog snot before adding all the weight and It seamed to stress the stock motor to much with a heavy train. it would lunge ahead then slow etc... always had traction with BFS,just to much of it!

Regards
Trent

[jonathan]

Trent,

Thanks for sharing the video.  I believe I counted 45 cars (approx).  Pretty nice for a loco that isn't a Spectrum, AND can be had for much less than MSRP.  BTW, I really like it when someone goes to the trouble to light their caboose.  Well done, sir! 

Even though mine is C&O, I let it run with my B&O equipment, just because I like it. 

I put most of my weight in the smokebox (1oz).  1/2 ounce went over the wheels (dome area), and the other 1/2 oz went in that gap near the firebox.  I suppose I could have put more, but this was my first time, so I didn't want to overdo it.  And heavenforbid that I let it pull more than my 4-8-2s

Again, thanks for sharing.

Regards,

Jonathan

[lmackattack]

Thanks John.

Glad you liked that Video. I will admit that train did stall on one of the grades down the line but managed to pull the whole 10 mile main line with only help in one spot.


Here is another vid with the same loco.  this time it has about 60+ cars putting on a show for open house night at the club
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA28-zblCm8
But I have to let you in on a little secret. It had a powered Box car in this vid. I took a Proto 2000 S1 chassi, removed the loco shell and placed a 40' box car shell (with added weight in the shell ) over it. That Loco was pulling 80 cars at the end of the night all by itself. Made the die hard diesel guys a little grumpy 

Steam still rules!!!!

Trent