Tender engine

[amrojasl]

Could you please tell me if this tender reference Item #160-89904 has a motor and can move alone without locomotive?

[jettrainfan]

is this the one? http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/Bachmann-Tender-Vanderbilt-Coal-Baltimore-Ohio/item160-89904.html

if it is, then no, it can't. This item is usually used for swapping a tender or people get a bit creative and use them on static display in a scrapyard, terminal, shed, and many other ideas.

[ABC]

None of the Bachmann Tenders are self propelled, all they do is either pick-up power or do nothing depending on the loco. For example a tender on a Spectrum 2-8-0 will pick up power and house the DCC decoder or 8 pin socket; whereas, the Prairie 2-6-2 tender does not pick up power and just trails the locomotive, it does not house a decoder or an 8 pin socket. The tender you reference is useful if you want to exchange tenders on a steam locomotive or need a new tender for a steam locomotive that functions correctly.

[rockymidlandrr]

But while we are on this subject and to fulfill the request, how hard would it be to create a powered tender like he asks?  It would be a great benefit to a smaller steam locomotive to have the tender pulling as well.  So how hard would it be?  From the trucks up?

[richg]

But while we are on this subject and to fulfill the request, how hard would it be to create a powered tender like he asks?  It would be a great benefit to a smaller steam locomotive to have the tender pulling as well.  So how hard would it be?  From the trucks up?

Harder than you think, especially trying to run it with a powered loco. A company made one some years ago but the loco was not powered. The tender did all the work.

Rich

[Michigan Railfan]

Actually, Bachmann did make a tender powered engine. The older 4-4-0 Jupiter model was one. I guess you could call it half and half. I think the engine is in the tender, and drive shaft goes from the tender to the loco itself. I think the shaft turns the wheels to the speed that's being applied to the track, so the wheels won't spin. I'm pretty sure that's how it went. Remember, I'm talking about a very older model that my friend has.

[rockymidlandrr]

A company made one some years ago but the loco was not powered. The tender did all the work.
[/quote]

That company was Tyco.  It was for their 0-8-0.  I have seen several of them but what about scratchbuilding a modern version of one of them to assist a steam loco.  Its not really that hard once you get the motors installed.  I use DCC some some tinkering with the CV's would get the motors sync'd together.  They would have to be because they would be under the same address.

[barrowsr]

NWSL makes (or made) powered trucks that might be adapted to a tender.

Robin

[richg]

This issue use to pop up in train magazines before the Internet was ever thought of.

To use one decoder, the gear reduction would have to be identical and for mechanical reasons, they still might not be identical depending on how close the tolerances are. Designing a motor gear reduction unit might beyond the capability of many in this forum, including me.

About 20 years ago I re-geared a 4-6-0 and 0-4-0 and it was quite a challenge, even using NWSL info, gears and motors.

I have a PCM F3 A/B and they are powered by one decoder in the A unit and are "almost" identical.
A six wire cable connects the two units and if not coupled, one runs very slightly faster than the other. When coupled, not an issue.

I have a BLI A/B set and one runs a little faster than the other using only DC. These are identical motors and gears. With DCC I can fine tune them but actually not necessary when running coupled.
I sometimes run them as ABBA and they run very well but all the drives are from the same supplier. Each unit weighs 1.2 lbs and that is a lot of loco.

I have some Bachmann 4-4-0's and the tender is powered but not to the tender wheels.

I have read a couple times over the years that someone tried a tender with motor and gears with a powered loco but it was a big challenge as all that was available was DC control. I remember the motor/gears and tender weight occupied most of the tender. Don't forget, we would want as much weight as possible for better traction.

We have to separate fantasy from reality.

Rich

[OldTimer]

Seems like I recall reading that tender drives are not unusual in Europe.  The tender takes care of business and the loco just goes along for the ride.  The mechanism is basically the same as a B-B diesel.  Same topic, different continent;  I can't find the issue, but there was an article in Model Railroad Planning  some years ago about a guy who is modelling a portion of the N&W in N-scale.  In order to get his 2-8-8-2's to pull prototypical length trains, he has to power the auxillary tenders.
OldTimer

[rockymidlandrr]

Its the N&W article that has been my inspiration for this project.  I remember reading that specific article many years ago and I cannot remember the specific details of it for the life of me.  Since my steam locomotives wont be running with a auxillary tender the vast majority of the time Im trying to power the tender.  The hardest actual part is finding the gear boxes that actually fit over a tender truck frame. 

[Doneldon]

Many (most?) of the early small brass steamers had their motors in the tenders and gear columns in the loco.  A few had tender drives and "dummy" locos whose wheels, rods and valve gear were actually moved by the drivers rolling down the track.  I never had any of these so I don't know how well they operated.
                                                                                                -- D

[bobwrgt]

Hornby OO gauge engines were tender drive for many years. They use loco pick up with traction tires on the tender. Even an 0-4-0 had great pulling power. They run on HO track. The bad part is they don't use swivel trucks in the UK. Almost all tenders with tender drive have 3 or 4 fixed axels.
French HO scale JOUEF engines  use tender drives with swivel trucks that could be kit bashed into an American tender. Bachmann did sell a tender drive engine made by Jouef in the Orient Express set.
Roco, Liliput, Piko and Fleischmann  HO German engines all use tender drives that work quite well. several could be adapted to American. Hard to come by at a good price.
The advantage to tender drive is the tender is full of lead and no matter what size the engine is , the pulling power is great. You can also use one tender for several engines.
Bob

[bmjcook]

Gidday
              A lot of the Roco steam locos actually have their motor in the tender, drive through the tender wheels, have a drive shaft going through the firebox on the loco and drive on the loco wheels as well. They usually have a couple of wheels on the tender that are "rubber" shod. These locos drive so smooooooth and haul loads that are unbelievable. I know that they are dearer to buy than "American" steam but I would pay the price for such quality.
                        Cookie