Fleas for a Plymouth?

[CNE Runner]

I recently read an article on the reintroduction of Northwest Shortline's Flea power unit for locomotives. Here is the reference page from NWSL's website: http://www.nwsl.com/motors-power-drives/the-flea . Does anyone have any idea whether or not this would work in the Bachmann Plymouth industrial locomotive?

After spending a considerable amount of time trying to make the Plymouth run better; I have given up. We plan on attending some train shows, in the Fall, and I am 'on the lookout' for another Bachmann Plymouth loco. This engine will be disassembled, reworked to resemble the prototype locomotive it is supposed to model (but doesn't). The plan is to rework the cab area and add Tomar power pick ups instead of the inadequate axle-to-frame transfer these locomotives had installed.

I don't want to put in a lot of effort into a locomotive that will continue to run like a 'growler'. BLI is seriously contemplating introducing a 'critter' based on their successful Trackmobile power unit...I said 'contemplating'...not producing as of yet. Until then, I would like to have a Plymouth that runs as smoothly, and quietly, as my BLI Trackmobile. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Ray

[jonathan]

Ray,

Looking over the diagrams for the Plymouth and the Flea, I see a couple of challenges (perhaps you have considered these already).

On the upside, from all accounts NWSL produces some great motors and gearing. I'm sure that is a great product.  I could see adding wheel pickups to all wheels, so smooth running could be achieved.  Mounting the flea in the plymouth is another issue.

On the downside:  it would appear that you would have to do some serious grinding on the split-frame in order to get the gearbox and motor mounted between the frame pieces.  The other big issue is tractive effort.  How would one transfer power to the other drivers?  I'm no engineer, so forgive my ignorance, but I would have a tough time figuring out how to connect the gears to the other sets of wheels.  If you only have two of the six wheels pulling, I could see wheel slippage, even just pulling its own weight, not to mention the loss of weight from grinding out a space for the new motor, AND the loss of weight from pulling the old motor. 

While this seems like a doable project, I wonder if it's worth the effort?  Wouldn't a 44, 45 or 70 ton diesel achieve the same desire?  They are small, transition era diesels, and very inexpensive from my experience at train shows. 

Believe me, I with you.  I'm a do-it-yourself guy.  However, when it comes to small sizes,  I would have to rely on ready-to-run.  I tried like crazy to get an old plymouth (4-wheels instead of 6) running well.  Just couldn't do it--too small, too light, not enough wheels.

Just an opinion from a mediocre modeler.  I really like your Monks Island layout.  You do need a small, really reliable loco to run ops.  I vote for the 44 ton.  50 bucks a most shows.

I did see the video of that little trackmobile in action.  Very cool, but I'll bet it needs perfect track to run well.

That'll be two cents, please.

Regards,

Jonathan

P.S. Bachmann saved me by making the 44-tonner, which is tiny, and runs smooth as glass, even through turnouts.

[OldTimer]

NWSL used to make a powered truck, called, I think, a PDT.  I know at one time they were very popular for re-powering Athearn Hi-F (aka rubber band) drive RDC's and trollies.  Different wheel-bases and wheel sizes were offered.  Don't know if they're still available, but if so, that's another possibility.

[CNE Runner]

Guys, thanks for getting back to my question so rapidly.

Jonathan: Yes, I already reached the conclusion that one driven axle would probably not work out. The maximum number of cars I push/pull at any one time is 4, Assuming these are all 40' cars - weighted to NMRA standards (which all my rolling stock is) - that means this little critter is trying to move 15 oz. + itself...not good. Also the further complication involving the lack of space between the body and the split frame (let alone the renovating of the frame itself) makes for a project that just isn't worth attempting. You can't make a $40 toy engine perform like an $80+ unit (I guess that is why the BLI Trackmobile runs so well).

Old Timer: Yes, I certainly do remember those awful Hi-F drive Athearn locomotives. I did a quick check of the NWSL website and did not see those PDT units. Thankfully those Hi-F units haven't been made in years...I guess there isn't enough call for that motor/gear replacement unit.

Regarding the 44 and 45-Tonners: I think they are both too large for my layout. The Plymouth measures 4" (or 10 cms.) long less couplers. I can't seem to find the dimensions for the 44 or 45 Tonners - but will assume they are somewhat larger. Jonathan (or anyone else reading this): What are the lengths of these locomotives?

I guess I should say to anyone out there contemplating a mini/micro switching layout that the Bachmann Plymouth runs OK. It 'grinds' and 'growls' despite a good run in, gear train cleaning and lubing. If I were really, really clever (and I am not); I would transplant the running gear of the BLI Trackmobile into the Plymouth's body...now that would be a project!

Regards,
Ray

[jonathan]

From a thread in 2008, Tim writes that the 44 ton's length is 3.804" at the end beams (assuming that means without the couplers).  Don't have mine in front of me, but will measure it tonight.

Interestingly enough that is almost exactly the same length as my Dockside Switcher from front pilot step to rear step.

R,

J

[jonathan]

From the end of each coupler, the 44 ton is 4.75" in length.  It's nearly 4.25" from front step to rear step. Is that too long?

Regards,

Jonathan

[kamerad47]

The 45 ton DCC  is the best running loco out of all of them !! I use it on a small 4 ' x 12" layout  it's great! Don't forget that is still a spectrum model, better pick ups ! really slow speed Too!

[CNE Runner]

Thanks guys...you have now added TWO locomotives to the mix. Frankly I like them both (now if I could just find that money tree).

Jonathan, the 44-Ton is only a quarter of an inch larger than the Plymouth - which means it would definitely work on the Monks' Island Railway. The price is a little easier to swallow than the 45-Tonner as well. But...

Kamerand47: Oooh, I really like the looks of that 45-Tonner - but am a little leery of the price (the best I could find was $79 verses $58.50 for the 44-Tonner). You seem to really like that 45-Tonner...what is its length (front step to rear step)? Are your turnouts equipped with insulated frogs?

I assume either of these beauties will run on DC as they both feature dual mode decoders...a plus. Gosh, my wallet is really vibrating!

Many thanks,
Ray

[jonathan]

Always glad to help someone empty their bank account!

[jward]

the 45 tonner should be about the same size as the 44 tonner.

another possibility is the emd model 40, made a few years back by roundhouse. the prototype was a very rare (11 built?) ww2 era switcher. it has only 2 axles, and should be under 3" in length.....

[ABC]

I like the emd model 40 critter, I think there were 12 built.

[NMWTRR]

I have been eyeing the flea for two small Plymouth engines made by tyco I have had for many years.

One concern I have is can the flea be converted to DCC?

Is it even feasible?

[Jim Banner]

Yes, a flea can be converted to DCC.  The conversion to DCC is feasable.  Conversion of the Tyco Plymouth to run on a flea - I don't know if that is feasable, but why not?

I too have a Tyco Plymouth.  Mine came with machine guns mounted on the sides.

Jim

[CNE Runner]

I definitely have my eye on either the 44 or 45 Tonners. Admittedly I am 'leaning' towards the 45 Tonner because it is a Bachmann Spectrum product (if it runs as well as my 2 Spectrum 4-4-0s I will be ecstatic).

The first priority is to purchase another handheld throttle from a source in Canada. Depending upon how well I do, selling some items on eBay, I will 'splurge' on a new locomotive...probably an undecorated 45 Tonner. Again, I will have to see how the finances work out.

Today's project is to start wiring the Sweet Haven section. Gosh...do I hate DC wiring! After exclusively using DCC for 5 or 6 years (I haven't had a DC powered layout in over 15 years), one forgets how complicated DC wiring can get (especially when you are factoring in 2 cabs). Take it for me: DCC is the best thing to come along since air conditioning.

Cheers,
Ray

PS: If I change out the Peco Insulfrog double slip turnout and the Peco Insulfrog crossing - replacing them with Electrofrog units - I could go DCC...hmmmm.

[kamerad47]

I use # 4 insulfrog turnouts No prpblem The 45 is a little shorter than the 44 & the 45 tom is night & day in slow speed to the 44 ton  & those drive rods are great to watch!! T have all 3  70 ton the worst runner 44 ton next & the 45 ton  the BEST!!! by far!!