mint tyco stuff

[ABC]

Kadee #5 couplers are only $1.75 a pair max

My coupler price per car included 2 Kadee #148 couplers with draft gear boxes and 2 self-tapping screws.

Delrin trucks with Delrin wheels can be had for as little as $1.45 per pair (Tichy 3025)

Delrin wheels in my experience do not perform as well as brass wheels, the cars seem to roll much better, but your right in that it may be satisfactory for some because each person can have his own preference and minimum standards. For some I guess a TYCO or Life-Like car as is suits them just fine, while others prefer some more expensive or detailed cars.
The pennies are a good method, but like you said not always possible and I guess you could always improvise,  but sometimes there is not a cheap solution.
All I was saying was that you can often get great cars that already conform to all the NMRA specs for a lot less than if you bought everything separately. For example you can buy a certain Bachmann loco at MSRP for about $150, but if you were to buy all the parts individually it would cost almost $250 and you or a friend still has to do the work (which some may enjoy). If you are not concerned with NMRA specs, detail, cost of improvement or being prototypical then go ahead and buy a bunch of $3 or $4 cars. I however find good value in the Walthers Gold Line cars when they are on sale for upwards of half off MSRP, you can't beat the metal wheels and couplers for a price of $8-$15, you might need to add 1 or 2 pennies for weight; the only other improvement would be maybe scale couplers and wheels if you do that.

[jbsmith]

Donaldon- I have never ever,not once,lost a wink of sleep due to the opinions of train snobs!
There is so much more to MRR'ing than just strictly and obediantly adhereing to NMRA prototypical standards and rules.
Some people just don't get it.

Jettrain!  Photos!  Looking forward to seeing some! Good to see/hear everything works and you got the bugs worked out. Does Daisy accept bribes?

Tip: Read Thursday and Friday newspapers, they are usually a good source for garage/yard sale announcements, be patient and persistant and you can find real bargains, especialy if you get to the sale early as possible,,MRR stuff sells surprisingly fast at these. If there is a tele # in the add,,Call them and ask what if any MRR stuff is available! Saves time & gas.
Estate sales can be hit or miss, sometimes you can find real bargains,,,sometimes they want way to much $$, it is a gamble, but sometimes it pays off.

[jward]

pipefitter:

nice video. chessie gp7 brings back fond memories of the real ones. and are those lifelike hoppers? i'd recognize that coal load anywhere.....

jbsmith:

for me it isn't about being a train snob blindly following the nmra. i don't always follow the recommended practices, but years of experience have taught me what i can get away with and what won't work well. some of us grew up playing with these same cars and locomotives, and spent hours getting them working right. if you have the time and patience, and the parts, you can make decent runners out of many of those cars. but as is they aren't going to work well for what jet does in his videos. an example: backing a string of cars with truck mounted horn hook couplers is asking for derailments. believe me, i've done it enough times to know......lol

it seems to me that alot of the advice given on this forum by the old heads is the result of being in this hobby in a time when we HAD to solve those problems. to-day you can get great running cars right out of the box at a reasonable cost. you'll spend alot of time getting say, a bachmann car from the 1970s to run like the same car from to-days silver series. that is not to say there weren't some unique cars offered back then that i'd consider upgrading. tyco's 60 foot boxcars come to mind, as does the crane jet has just acquired....

btw, my first HO locomotive was one of those AHM alco switchers that jet mentioned in another post. it was quickly bumped to the siding by a succession of athearn locomotives which gave me years of service and very little trouble.....

it's all in what you want out of the hobby. personally, i'd rather have something thast runs well but looks like crap, than something beautiful which gives me no end of trouble......

[Jim Banner]

Delrin wheels in my experience do not perform as well as brass wheels, the cars seem to roll much better, but your right in that it may be satisfactory for some because each person can have his own preference and minimum standards.

I don't know how you test your cars but I have a go-no-go test that I apply to mine.  It involves rolling the car down a fixed grade.  If it rolls by itself, it passes.  If not, it gets the wheels cleaned.  If it still does not pass, it gets the journals reamed, axle points polished, and the wheels trued or replaced until it does.  If anything more than cleaning the wheels is required, the Kadee couplers also get checked for height, glad hand clearance, knuckle action and self centering.   A final coupler check is to check delayed uncoupling action using a test car and a locomotive.  Failure of any of these coupler checks results in lubricating the couplers.  Continued failure results in replacement.

However, in studying the relative merits of different wheel types, something more than a simple go-no-go test was required.  I used a sine table which allowed slowly increasing the slope until the car started rolling on its own.  The less slope required, the better the rolling characteristics.  The absolute best in this test were steel wheels that had been ground true and then polished to a mirror finish.  These were closely followed by ground and polished nickel silver and brass wheels.  The plastic wheels were too soft to grind and polish so they were tested straight out of the package.  The best of these were Delrin wheels on steel axles, and of the ones commonly available at the time, Athearn's were the best.  ABS wheels, even on steel axles, tended to be less round than the Delrin ones, as measured with a dial indicator.  Train set wheels with the two wheels and the axle moulded as one piece were by far the worst, usually being out of round, tilted, and out of gauge.  The biggest surprise was wheels provided under their own name by a well know supplier.  They were moulded with a bump on the tread that made them roll even worse than the train set wheels, in spite of their well made brass axles, until the bumps were filed off.  All the wheels were tested in one piece Delrin trucks as even the best of the equalizing trucks had enough slop in them to cause some axle bind that needed a steeper slope to over come.

But initial rolling resistance is only a small part of the story.  Not surprisingly, the polished treads of steel wheels degraded rather quickly due to moisture in the air.  The same with brass wheels.  After some time just sitting, the polished nickel silver wheels were found to outperform both the steel and the brass.

But even that did not define the "best" wheels.  Frequency of cleaning played a large part as well.  Few if any of us clean all the wheels on a train every time we run it.  So wheels that required less frequent cleaning were rated higher than ones requiring more frequent cleaning.  The steel and brass wheels, once they acquired a thin film of corrosion, picked up dirt rather easily and retained it rather well.  Nickel silver and Delrin wheels picked up dirt more slowly.  (Other plastic wheels were not tested as they had been banned by the railroad after the rolling tests.)  Initially, the dirt built up more slowly on the nickel silver wheels, possibly because the hard surface pounding on the rails tended to knock it off.  The softer Delrin built up dirt more quickly, but then a funny thing happened.  Once the dirt got .010 to .012 inches thick, it would split and peel of the wheel, leaving "tires" beside the track.  These tires looked very much like the treads that peel off the recapped tires of semi trailers and can be seen in ditches along highways.  The dirt on the nickel silver wheels never seemed to do this but would build up until about .020 inches thick at which point there was too little wheel flange showing to keep the wheels on the track.  The "split and peel" effect may be a result of my lightly oiling my rails.  Whatever the cause, it means rarely if ever having to clean Delrin wheels.  It also means that the average Delrin wheel that has been in service for some time rolls more freely than the average Nickel Silver wheels that has seen the same service.   We have observed the same phenomenon with our publically operated museum layout where we have had some 20 years and almost 6800 train miles of experience.

Bottom line is that a cheap, one piece Delrin truck with Delrin wheels may give better overall performance than a much more expensive equalized truck with metal wheels.  But if looks is more important than performance, if you like the idea of real springs and working equalization, and the clickety-clack  of metal wheels appeals to you, by all means stick with your favourite wheels and trucks.  The public rarely notices but from time to time we have experienced model railroaders ask us why we run our exquisite hand built cars on cheap Athearn trucks.  We explain why, and now you know too.

Jim     

[ABC]

That seems like pretty good evidence. I ream out the journals if they do not roll well, and if that does not work I replace the trucks. I set up a slope of about 3% and set the car at the top and see how far it goes, the brass usually goes further, but occasionally the delrin with metal axles works better with particular types of trucks. You considered all the factors whereas I merely considered rolling distance(how free rolling they were). Interestingly enough I have a box that has about 1000 delrin wheels (w/metal axles) in it that came from blue box kits and some Bowser and other kits.

[jettrainfan]

pipefilter, excellent work!

jb, uploading now. Movie maker was glitching on me and thanks for the advice! I'll check my route to triskett and the paper tomorrow. I think some Dairy Queen will cheer daisy up up  

The video doesn't got any "crane action" but i'll make a second video later. i should've called this video "derail, derail, runaway, derail" 2 derails were caught on tape and the GE70-ton was a down hill runaway for about 5 seconds. The rock was not suppose to end up in the video but i just thought screw it and threw it in with the 0-4-0 (needs a good cleaning soon). In the end, got my shots and was happy with them, Thanks to my new tri-pod.  


3 minutes later..................
got the video up finally http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFph8hQuKGU

[Doneldon]

jb-

My ten-year-old grandson went to a farm auction with his parents last weekend and there were some trains.  Well, he decided he wanted them so he put on his charming child act while some older men were looking at the trains before the auction started.  Once it did, they didn't bid against him.  Another fellow did but one of the men went over to him and then he quieted down, too.  By the end of the auction Cole had all four HO lots including two boxes of cars, two locos, track and electrical goods, and a layout on a board.  All for $60.  In the car after the sale he announced to his parents that it seemed his schmoozing had really paid off. 

I don't think he planned that but he is quite a kid.  I know, I know, he's my grandson, but I told his mother when he was a year old that I was glad I didn't have to raise him because he was clearly going to be a real pistol.  And he is.

Of course now Grandpa has to convert all of that stuff to Kadees and DCC.  The guys who let him have the trains probably made out better than I will.
                                                                                                   -- D

[CNE Runner]

As an ex-vendor of model railroad items, I have sold my fair share of Tyco products. Generally speaking they are of inferior quality and are rather difficult to sell...whether in the regular stock in the 'parts/junk' pile. There are some exceptions to this rule: anything that is of the 19th century genre and the Heinz pickle reefer.

Anyone modeling the 1800s will spend the money, and take the time, to bring these cars to good running (and looking) condition. The Heinz pickle reefer sells immediately at $15. I have yet to figure that one out.

The argument was made about running what you want on your railroad. I agree with this to a point: you will tire of lightweight, poorly constructed cars constantly derailing or running less than desirably. It is a matter of how much aggravation you are willing to put up with. A good quality Athearn or Accurail (not to leave any other manufacturer out) kit can be had (at a show) for considerably less than $20. The end result is a good looking, good running car that will give you years of service AND retain a healthy portion of its purchase price.

Good luck with your layout. In the end, it doesn't really matter what you run...as long as you are running something!

Regards,
Ray

[ABC]

At some shows I have been to, all the vendors (who are there early to setup) walk around and see if there is anything they want and this is where you can get some good buys. For example, somebody had a lot of 20 MDC cars all with Kadee #5s, various metal wheels, and weighted to NMRA specs, the lot was $80 for them all and they were all flawless except for 1 was missing a brake wheel and 1 coupler and 1 wheel were missing. I would have bought them too, but I only had about $50, and I didn't sell anything yet.
At another show somebody had a 8 car SP Daylight passenger set with battery powered lights (like in Rapido cars) and a red led in the observation, they had Kadees and metal wheels that rolled really nice; the dealer was only asking $30 for the lot, and these didn't last, he lowered his price from $40 because the lights didn't work, but he did not realize all they needed were new batteries and a "wand" (w/ magnet); he thought the lights were track powered.
Moral of the story is go really early and you can get some steals.

[pipefitter]

pipefitter:

nice video. chessie gp7 brings back fond memories of the real ones. and are those lifelike hoppers? i'd recognize that coal load anywhere.....

Yes those are LL hoppers, from their Varney molds, filling in for ballast cars That video is the one and only I've made. Gonna have to try another now that I know it works. Better light and higher resolution.

And yes that Bachmann Chessie GP7 is superb, as is their blue B&O unit (which I also have). My only problem with them are that they are so nice that I'm going to have to get two more of each. I too remember B&O trains behind these locos. Looking forward to the new Bachmann GP9's. They have announced B&O blue as one available paint scheme. Hope a later run will come in Chessie colors as well.

Cheers,

Robert

[jbsmith]

Strange as may sound,,i actualy have not had any real issues with my old rolling stock.
Derailments? Rare. No more than any of my newer stuff.
The wieght of the cars? Most seem to be just right.
There is one hopper i got from that garage sale box of stuff, it is an AHM 47ft covered hopper
"Warps Plastics" that seems a bit to light even to me. May have to try out Jims penny trick
with it. It rolls just fine,,it is just a bit light.
Here is a pic,if you are curious,,scroll down it is the very last one listed.
http://tycotrain.tripod.com/ahmhoscaletrainscollectorsresource/id36.html

[jbsmith]

Jettrain
Where i live I am lucky enough to have a number of kind of local hobby shops that also sell used rolling stock .
This is a great way to find rare hard to find stuff.
And if one wants unload,,they will "buy it" with in store credit if it is good condition.
I'll keep an eye out for the Popsicle one for you.
This weekend is also my towns annual city wide garage sale weekend,,going to be a busy weekend.

I watched the video,,and my thanks to your Grandfather too! That stuff in mint condition is a real treasure he found for you.

[ABC]

Strange as may sound,,i actualy have not had any real issues with my old rolling stock.
Derailments? Rare. No more than any of my newer stuff.
The wieght of the cars? Most seem to be just right.

Really...Do you back up often? (especially through turnouts) Maybe the reason why your new and old stuff derail just as frequently is because they all the same weight (and underweight compared to NMRA standards), but as long as it is satisfactory for you; the NMRA has some good ideas, but ultimately its your RR.

[mf5117]

In the day thats all we had was TYCO and 027 LIONEL . And then Black and White TV"S now Plasma . I have bought some crap out of impulse and come to find on some it plastic wheel sets, Knuckle couple though , but alot of drag when rolling down the tracks . I have found good bachmann ,athearn rolling stock for as little as $6.00 a car on ModelTrainstuff.com have gotten alot of track rolling , stock, engines "dcc" . I have replaced couplers ,wheel sets trucks  HO and G due to impulse buying I say again .but I feel its your own railroad, your own equipment .I like working with my old stuff , finding wow it does still work 0-4-0 tyco steamer I was like wow just cleaned and oiled it . I have some old tyco car haulers I can't remember the correct name you call them .but changed the trucks and couplers and they work well for me . due to I couldn't find any at the time and if I did they were way to much in cost .so now I pull 4 of them with 2 DCC Bachmann GP-35's and that works for me .anyways have fun      its your railroad 

[jward]

pipefitter,
don't forget those bachmann rs3s in western maryland, too. if you are my age (46) then you remember those as well. b&o and wm locomotives were freely mixed from the mid 1970s onward.

i feel like a bankrupt railroad. so many locomotives, but no money to buy them....sigh