What Can You Do With A 4-6-2?

[J3a-614]

This is more of a call for some new models from two builders (Bachmann and Athearn), the strong selling point being that the firms can use existing mechanisms with few (if any) changes, requiring only new superstuctures and tenders, as seems to have been the case with the new 2-6-6-2 and the newly anounced Baldwin 4-4-0.

We'll start with Bachmann, and the Pennsylvania K4s.  The principle ingredients I see in it are 80" drivers (a large size, which would also set the wheelbase), a lightweight Laird type crosshead, and lacy, delicate Walschaerts valve gear.  Who else used Pacifics with these features?

We'll start our photo illustrations with our base, the PRR K4s:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr12s.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr295s.jpg

The B&O was quite enamoured of the PRR's K4s, and took advantage of designing the boiler for 250 psi vs. the 205 psi of the K4s; net result was probably about 10 mph more speed, perhaps more.  These were the P7 "President" class engines of 1927, the 5300s, of which No. 5300 itself survives today.  Fred Westing (railroad author) once recalled he took a cab ride on one of these, and at well over 90 mph, said it was the fastest cab ride he ever had, noting how the fireman had no trouble at all keeping up steam thanks to a mechanical stoker. (At the time of this ride, the K4s were still hand-fired.)

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s5300.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5300as.jpg

Another road with at least similar looking running gear under a 4-6-2 was the Reading, specifically the Wooten-fireboxed G-1 and G-3 classes  (G-2s had smaller drivers).  The G-1 was the basis for a Mantua model that dated back to when Mantual sold engines with a fabricated brass superstructure; Penn Line's Crusader represented a rebuilt G-1 with streamlining.  The G-3s were notable as the last 4-6-2s build for an American railroad in 1948, and looked like a shorter version of a T-1 4-8-4.

G-1:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_rdg114.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_rdg115a.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/rdg121sa.jpg

G-3:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_rdg208.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/rdg214s.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/rdg/rdg-s217ark.jpg

The Central of New Jersey had 4-6-2s that were supposedly based on the Reading G-1, with  a slight reduction in driver diametor (1 inch).  They even classed their engines in classes G-1, 2, 3, and 4.  CNJ was for a time controlled by the Reading, which could explain a good deal.

G-1s:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj821sa.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj822s.jpg

G-2s:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj828s.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj830s.jpg

G-3s:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj831sb.jpg

Picture this one in blue paint for Blue Comet service:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_cnj832.jpg

Lower-drivered G-4s, not much difference, but it does change the proportions a little:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj811sa.jpg

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002830

I thought the New Haven's I4s would qualify, but they had Baker valve gear, so they are not included.  However, if you explore this site, there is an enormous number of New Haven photos, and so it is spotted here as a reference for the New Haven fans among us:

http://sites.google.com/site/nynhhsteam/

What about the Athearn-MDC 4-6-2?  It's a USRA light 4-6-2, with 74" drivers and long-frame Baker valve gear.  Besides the roads that used the USRA design pretty much as is (including B&O and Atlantic Coast Line), heavy Pacifics on two roads that I can recall shared these key features--Southern Railway on its Ps-4s as built (they would later be rebuilt with Walschaerts), and C&O F-17, 18, and 19 4-6-2s.

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/steam.html

Note that some of the PS-4 photos will show them in rebuilt form, with different valve gear.

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/462/1374.html

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/462/sou6482.html

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/462/462unknown.html

Southern's only streamlined steamer, simply included as an item of interest:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/462/sou1380atlanta.html

C&O power:

http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-16265.jpg

http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-24002.jpg

http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-24001.jpg

http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-24200.jpg

http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-24204.jpg

http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-29236.jpg

The F-19s, alas, suffered from a postwar rebuilding program that turned them into L-1 4-6-4s, the "Yellowbellies;" oh, the horror, the horror. . .

http://www.cohs.org/repository/Archives/cohs/web/cohs-30025.jpg

Enjoy, and let's hope two of our best builders see and find a market in here.  And if you can think of any other engines that could be made from these two mechanisms, let us know, I'd be curious about them myself.

[Bill Baker]

Great links.  Thanks for sending.

[J3a-614]

Glad you liked'em.

Out of curiousity, which 4-6-2 do you think you could use?

[Bill Baker]

J3, Sorry I'm so late in responding, I was out of town. 

I model the Rock Island in the late 40's.  I honestly don't know enough about the various Pacifics to tell one from another unless there are major differences like the boiler or running gear.  I've looked on the Rock Island Technical Society site (RITS) but can't identify what Pacifics they used.  Also, their tenders were rebuilt in their shops and they are of a very unique design.  I've tried to kitbash one of their tenders from a Vanderbilt, but it was a catastrophe.

[jonathan]

J3a,

My homework is late!  Please give me a passing grade.

After studying the various Pacifics (B&O of course), I'll give an assessment based solely on overall attractiveness of the locos.  I could live with any B&O 4-6-2, but here's how they fall out:

P thru P-4.  All nice; differences are minimal--a good candidate.

P-5 & P6.  Somehow the accessories look like an afterthought.  Uglier than the earlier versions.  No thanks.

P7.  These are the Presidential locos.  Some received the streamline treatment later on, if I got my facts right.  All were pretty nice looking.  I have seen a few brass models of these that were keepers (well, someday).

P8.  OK, just OK.

P9.  Got ugly again.  I think I get turned off when they raise the boiler walk and throw all the compressors and tanks underneath.  It's a visual thing.

P12.  Again, OK.

P17.  Nice.

P18.  It's personal preference, but I like the headlight centered on the smokebox.  I'll always vote for that feature.

I also don't care for the modernized cowl and compressors up front.  Makes the loco look cheap somehow.  Removed that mess when I redid my old Mantua Mikado.  Again, just my opinion, nothing more.

Regards,

Jonathan

[ebtnut]

I think I might vote for the P-18.  They weren't originally B&O, having come from the BR&P.  But they are generic enough that they might be close fits for a number of Pacifics - maybe SAL, RI, A&WP. 

[J3a-614]

Well, glad to have the steam club back!  Let's see what we see.

On the B&O, P-1 through P-3 are similar, but there are differences in the domes on the P-4, suggesting it may be an inherited engine (B&O had more of those than most, I'll want to check a roster; another road with a lot of inherited power was Canadian National).

P-5 was a USRA engine; this is the Athearn model that's supposed to come out; as delivered, and for some time after, had the centered headlight that was standard for the USRA series.  P-6 was a B&O copy with variations in domes, valve gear, and a Vanderbilt tank similar to those behind a Q-4 2-8-2.

Note the streamlined P-7 (Cincinattian service) in the background of this P-5 shot:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5200s.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5222s.jpg

Did at least one P-5 get blue paint?

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5220s.jpg

P-8s were inherited engines, and the P-7s of course were the Presidents, which had a running gear very similar to that of a PRR K4s, hence the suggestion that this would be something Bachmann could make for relatively little in new tooling.  P-9s were P-7 variants with watertube fireboxes, and actually had relatively low running boards, at least in the photos I'm seeing.

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002588

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002519

P-17 and P-18 look similar to me, both are ex-BR&P engines.  Will have to check a roster to see if they are as close as they look.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s5147abr.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5185s.jpg

I've also got to look and see what can stand in for Rock Island power; be back later.

[jonathan]

I notice that we have looked at locos with relatively generic looking tenders as well.  I think that's a good selling point.  Since Bachmann has the medium tender already available, no new tooling to consider in that area.  Keeps the overall cost down.

Not that I would mind a nice medium vandy tender...  pretty sure the tooling for a couple of tender choices is there, too.

Regards,

Jonathan

[J3a-614]

Well, I'm trying to find Rock Island steam info, which is apparently not too common.  Here's what I've been able to dig up so far:

No. 886, one of three surviving CRI&P 4-6-2s:

http://www.peoriacountyillinois.info/photos/tran_rockisland_1940.jpg

http://www.peoriacountyillinois.info/photos/tran_rockisland_1941.jpg

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/default.aspx?f=1&guid=ad2e0433-39a9-4c47-a5fb-1ddf95aade59&gid=2

No. 905:

http://rockisland905.com/index.htm

http://rockisland905.com/historical_loco_photos.htm

http://rockisland905.com/current_condition_photos.htm

No. 938:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=94971

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=961

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/valbum.cfm?display=961

http://www.irm.org/railwire/rw154.html#crip938

Enjoy.

[J3a-614]

Did a little more looking, and found this listing (darn, it's not a proper roster).

http://orion.math.iastate.edu/jdhsmith/term/sluscrip.htm

Note that classes 35 and 62 are USRA 0-6-0s (Bachmann, Life-Like) and light 2-8-2s (Broadway, Athearn, MTH?) respectively.

[Bill Baker]

J3,
Thanks for sending the links for the Rock Island Pacifics.  Just what I was looking for.  I've printed out the pictures and now have them in my scrap book.

Bill