DCC gone amok

[guslcp]

Cookie,

How dare you post an uniformed suggestion!  Aren’t you aware that by doing so you are: A. Leading people astray, and B, forcing the leading experts in the field to come back and ridicule you in public?

You (and everyone else here) should take into account that these gentlemen should not be put into such a situation.  I’m sure they’ve got better things to do.  Particularly since they’ve already provided the solution to this issue.  So I suggest that all who are not self-appointed experts in this (or any other) field please refrain from offering obviously wrong suggestions and allow others to set matters right without having to read a bunch of useless posts, and worse…to have to come back and expose our ignorance.

So please people, think twice before posting what will only be inconsiderate intromissions into someone else’s valuable time and expertise.

Thank you.

Gus (LC&P).

[r.cprmier]

Gus;
I called NCE yesterday AM, talked to one of the techs there, and got a fix.  I haven't had time to try it yet, but Hunt was on the right track on this issue. 
You do make a good point here.  I am by no means singling anyone out, or catigating anyone-not my thing-but a consideration in this situation should always be one's own credentials.  Mine are in the electrical field, particularly industrial controls; they are NOT in electronics, engineering, etc; that I will leave to someone else more qualified than I.   

I do hoewver wish to again thank all who gave their support here.  This is what the idea of this forum-and all others like it-are all about.
Have a great and shining day, all.

Rich

[guslcp]

Rich,  any news on the fix?  Got your trains running again..??
Keep us posted.
Good luck..!!

Gus (LC&P).

[r.cprmier]

Hi Gus;
I haven't had time to get into the train room to do anything.  Like you, duty calls, I haul...   I am hoping I can get into the room tomorrow night and do what it takes.  If I get done early (I have a 6AM job, and should be done by noon) I can get in there tomorrow.  I would rather do that so that if I need to call NCE again with questions (needing to be led...) etc,

I am still a little gunshy about tackling this.  The best gun I can come to the gunfight with is some logical knowledge I should have, considering my trade; but it would be scant at best, when applied to anything "computer-ese". 

I will write and let you know what, if any progress, I made.  I am sure it is a fairly easy fix; just doing it the right way is the 64-dollar question.

Have a great evening.  How's the weather in Brownsville?  It has been beautiful here, but it is going to start becoming "summer" soon.

Rich

[guslcp]

Don't you hate it when that happens...!!!  I rarely get a chance to do anything during the week...I've just about made my mind up that Friday evenings are the earliest I'll get to do anything.  Anyway...keep us posted.

Weather here is hot AND muggy.  Looking to get worse...

[Stephen D. Richards]

Hi Gus;
I haven't had time to get into the train room to do anything.  Like you, duty calls, I haul...   I am hoping I can get into the room tomorrow night and do what it takes.  If I get done early (I have a 6AM job, and should be done by noon) I can get in there tomorrow.  I would rather do that so that if I need to call NCE again with questions (needing to be led...) etc,

I am still a little gunshy about tackling this.  The best gun I can come to the gunfight with is some logical knowledge I should have, considering my trade; but it would be scant at best, when applied to anything "computer-ese". 

I will write and let you know what, if any progress, I made.  I am sure it is a fairly easy fix; just doing it the right way is the 64-dollar question.

Have a great evening.  How's the weather in Brownsville?  It has been beautiful here, but it is going to start becoming "summer" soon.

Rich

If I can do it anybody can!  Although I did have an Athearn Genesis Big Boy do the same thing...I took it back to my LHS and they simply replaced it for me.  I am interested in your progress and awaiting results!   Stephen

[r.cprmier]

'Evening all;
Well, Ol' Richie C. delved into the problem today; and after some factoring, and isolating, I have determined that the unit's innards have fried to a fare thee well!  Happens to the best of sickies.  There could have been a number of contributing factors, but to my way of thinking, the overload protection malfunctioned, and the loads on the track were, as Hunt pointed out, a sum too great for that unit to handle; and without the O/L protection in functional status, the rest of it just burned out due to excessive demand on components.   Iwill add that if there is CMOS technology being employed, it is a fragile componemt, highly susceptable to static discharge among other things.
At any rate, I am going to call NCE again, and let them know I am shipping it out for repair.
Again, to all; especially Hunt, thank you very much for all of your feedback here, and the knowledge contained herein.  None of it hurts to acquire.

Rich

[Hunt]

...

Again, to all; especially Hunt, thank you very much for all of your feedback here, and the knowledge contained herein.  None of it hurts to acquire.

Rich

Rich,
You're Welcome.

Had hoped it would be something simple. But your statements of conditions after trying a few things is the reason I suggested you contact NCE.

Consider having NCE install (check the cost) the current firmware version as they repair or replace your unit.

When you get your NCE command station back, do disable the Power Source Conversion on all of your decoders.

Gus,
Your Reply #16 on: May 21, 2007, 08:52:41 PM to Cookie, was a waste of time except possibly for the birds of a feather. Such a frame of mind as depicted by that reply is a major impediment to learning.

[r.cprmier]

Hunt;
Yep; Larry at NCE did mention doing that, using-I believe-CV29...I have it written down in the layout room.  What I will do is call them for clearance, send it in, get it repaired and, as you suggest, updated.  When I receive it back, I will do just that with the decoders; probvably bugging Larry one more time in the process, just toget me jump-started into that area.    I really don't want that to happen again...
Have a great memorial Day.

Rich

[r.cprmier]

Hunt;
A couple of questions come to mind here;
The "Tsunami" decoders emitted their "drifting" sound while the controller is in this state, and it did so even before.  Is this normal?  That was all I got from them after the problem happened; otherwise, they are good decoders.
The other question is do you think this might have affected the decoders of the equipment that was on track, possibly creating other problems?  As I said, the BLI equipment was totally unresponsive-my guess is it has to do with how the feed/controller circuits in those decoders are set up.  The NCE in the Athearn Mikes and Pacifics ( which were not on track when this happened) just act bypassed, and the engines take off at speed.  I am guessing that the different mfgrs have employed some differences in their circuitry; hence the different behavioural aspects.

I had BLI equipment I had not previously had in service 9 still in box).  I took them out and while on track, got the same results that I had from the "on track" BLI locos, hence my assumption.
OK  Time to get it repaired.

Rich

[Hunt]

Rich;

Decoders are not the same. Let us not try to go into the component and firmware differences between decoders; you just focus on what is covered in each decoder’s respective user and technical manuals.

For now, disconnect all the NCE DCC equipment used to place power and signal on the track. Now connect a DC power pack with no locomotives on track. Test run, with only one locomotive on the track at a time, each of your locomotives powered by the DC power pack.

An aside: Is your programming track a physically separate track? Or is it connected to your layout track and isolated by gap in both rails and using a toggle switch for run or program? The reason I ask, is a command station can be damaged if the gap is bridged between the programming track and the mainline track when the toggle switch is set for programming.

[Hunt]

Rich,
Will it run on DC --- you must read the reference for each brand and version decoder you have.

FYI -- If you bought a Tsunami decoder made by Soundtraxx and installed it.
Know CV 29 Bit 2 default setting is 0 and your locomotive will not run on analog (i.e. DC)

REF: Tsunami Technical Reference, page 24 and 25
CV 29 default setting is 2
This means
CV 29 Bit 2: APS, Alternate Power Source enable -- is set to 0 = NMRA Digital Only (i.e. DCC Only)

[r.cprmier]

HUnt;
Tech reference: Tsunami.  Where can I find or download that manual?  It may be useful, as i do have a couple of very minor adjustment/operating issues with them.  Also, you mentioned did I try the locos on DC?  No, not as of yet.  I would assume the athearn locos will, as per their behaviour with the 16VAC component.  I certainly could-I am in no particular rush to get this thing taken care of, as summer months, etc etc etc..., and presumably anything with NCE decoders might.  I will try the BLI units tonight on DC.  I will let you know.  thanks for the input.

RIch

[Hunt]

Rich,
BLI (OEM QSI sound decoder) locomotive will run on DC or DCC out of the box.

The Tsunami manuals can be downloaded from SoundTraxx
http://www.soundtraxx.com/products/dcc/docs.htm

Bear in mind, these Tsunami manuals are for the Tsunami decoder. A Bachmann factory DCC sound equipped locomotive, while its decoder uses Tsunami technology, parts of the manuals will not be applicable for the Bachmann sound decoder.
Example: Out of the box, a Bachmann sound equipped locomotive will run on DCC or DC without any changes to CV29 (because Bachmann's decoder  CV29 Bit 2 factory default is set = 2).

[r.cprmier]

Hunt;
That is fine.  my thought was to acuire some form of tech manual, akin to maybe what NCE has available.   I realize that there are going to be differences betwixt the units, and what happened during my "analysis" bore that out.  Oh, I also did this as you suggested:  I tried the units in question on the test track which I rigged up for DC temporarily.  Results are:
NCE decoder equipped engines will run fine-in one direction.

BLI equipped decoders will run-after a threshold voltage is reached (approx. 12-14VDC), again in one direction.  I did get some sound, but that wasn't my objective, so just figured it will work somewhat and went forth with the rest of my tests.

When complete, and enough of a representation was tried, I narrowed it down to the command station as the culprit; so I called NCE, and they gave me procedure.  I also requested they do that upgrade you suggested.

Again; thanks ever so much for your help here.  I have learned a lot about the "nature of the beask! (Popeye's word)

Rich