HO scale Water pumps

[Kris Everett]

i ran in to trouble

the flexible end of the pump i cant get the tube to go on to it?

[Doneldon]

Ktis -

Check to be sure you have the correct size tubing.  If you need different diameter tubing on the ends, post here and we'll tell you how to make the connection in the middle.

                                                                                           -- D

[Kris Everett]

1/4 will work on the stiff end but on the soft end it won't go on and i don't. want to damage it. and be out more money ill post a better pic of it.


http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/trainboy16/trains/Picture0026.jpg

[Kris Everett]

i think im going to do this im going to use 1/2" tube for the soft end the  reduced it back to 1/4" with 1/2"x1/4" barb fittings then ill be all set and done with plumbing 


dose ne 1 no where i can get a water prof membrane to get the water where it needs to be

[richg]

I have no idea of exactly what you are designing. scale, but understand for even experienced molders, real water is quite a challenge for a model railroad. Below are some links on this issue.

http://www.themodelrailroader.com/landscaping/how-to-model-water-on-your-model-railroad-layout/

Below link one persons experience with real water on a model railroad layout.

http://www.tslrr.com/water.htm

Home page for the above link.   http://www.tslrr.com/index.htm

http://www.building-your-model-railroad.com/model-railroad-water.html

The below book has some hints on using real water.

http://www.daveswebshop.com/creativeeffects.shtml

Rich

[OldTimer]

One of the problems with using real water is that it doesn't look like water that we see in nature.  I suspect that this may be because we've scaled down the world to fit our trains, but when we try to use water as a scenery element, we're using "full size" water.  One of the biggest problems with real water is that it is clear (unless, of course it's very muddy).   The color that water appears to have is caused by blues and greens in the environment that are reflected off the surface of the water.  Since we don't have sky and woods in our train rooms, there is nothing for the water to reflect.   

By the way, we are not the only ones with this water problem.  Back in the old days when movie makers used models rather than computer simulations, they found that water was not a good thing to float ships on.  Glycerin, I believe, became the product of choice to be the "stunt double" for water.

[richg]

Once in a great while I see one of those old movies and it looks just like "model" ships on water.
Was not very convincing at all.
Some of you "might" remember "flying saucers" held by a piece of string in some early science fiction, with no science, movies.
You have to remember, model railroading is an analogy of the real thing and all analogies break down somewhere.

"Artificial" water in modeling can be very convincing as some of the links I provided show.

Yes, real water provides bragging rights but it is a lot of work to install and maintain.

Rich

[Kris Everett]

old timer

can u pump Glycerin through thoses pumps that i have?


rich

i think i might be able o handle the chalenges of water

and i loved those links gave me a better understanding of useing real water in a layout

[Jim Banner]

Spilt water evaporates.  Spilt glycerin is forever.  That is why we used to use it to replace water in reindeer moss when we used it to make trees.  They would retain the glycerin and remain flexible for decades.

On a whim, I checked the WHMIS on glycerol and found this on an MSDS:

CAUTION! MAY CAUSE IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES, AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. MAY AFFECT KIDNEYS.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/g4774.htm

Digging a little deeper, it turns out that in case of fire, glycerol can decompose into acrolein, a rather nasty substance that was used as a chemical warfare agent in WWI and which itself can decompose in a fire to form carbon monoxide.

Turns out Aunt Mildred's Glycerin and Rose Water was not as innocuous as we used to think, although glycerol diluted with water is not a bad as the pure stuff.

Jim

[Kris Everett]

so if u could get your hands on some then u would over all suggest useing water over Aunt Mildred's Glycerin. for safety reasons?

[Jim Banner]

Water has a whole different set of problems associated with it.  I would not use either of them.  Having seen artificial water that you would swear was moving, I would suggest practicing your skills in that direction, using Envirotex or similar artificial water.  Be prepared to experiment, either on the layout or off it, until you find a method that works for you and gives results that are acceptable to you.

Jim

[JerryB]

Kris:

As Jim has recommended, I also would not use either 'real' water nor glycerin on an indoor small scale layout.

While real water would seem to have some merits, it is difficult (read impossible) to contain and scenic around, is subject to stagnation and growing ugly biologics, and (most of all) does not look like prototype water. It just does not scale down as one would hope.

All materials, such as glycerins, that remain liquid or semi-liquid have the same kinds of problems. Imagine a pond, lake or stream with some semi-liquid material that winds up leaking, covered in dust, or being contaminated with some growing material. And, yes, glycerins are a hazard if they are subjected to fire. Having a house fire is a small risk, but I wouldn't want to expose my family to unnecessary chemical hazards in the event of one.

Instead, I would suggest you study what materials are commonly used on layouts and select from them. As an example, Googling "model railroad water" produced 3,240,000 hits!! The first page of results contained several great sites that either discuss various water modeling solutions, advertise commercial products or lead to people's layouts that have water features. For a couple of examples, see:

Ten Ways To Model Water at: http://www.aglasshalffull.org/article-model-water.html

--and--

Woodland Scenics at: http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/index.cfm

Hope this helps,

Happy RRing,

Jerry

[OldTimer]

I have to protect my reputation here...LOL.  Please note that at NO TIME did I EVER suggest that Kris use glycerin in place of water on his layout.  I only mentioned glycerin to point out that even movie makers don't use real water because it doesn't look right.

My personal favorite way to make creeks/rivers is very smooth plaster followed by paint feathered from light tan/green at the bank to dark green/black in the deepest areas followed by gloss medium

[richg]

There are two things that are difficult for even experienced modelers, using and maintaining real water and installing a turntable that is trouble free.

Rich