DCC gone amok

[r.cprmier]

A funny thing happened...
...this AM.  I programmed two proto E-6s (older, DCC ready; had installed NCE decoders).  All went well.  I was happy.  I turned the system off to work on the layout.
A short time later, the fun began!  I flipped on the power supply, and the two back-to-back E-6s took off like a rocket!  I got them off of the track, and started to try to reason out what happened.  The steamers I had on track wouldn't program-move, honk, beep, or anything; the exceptions were rthe two 2-6-6-2s with Tsunamis-they made that idling sound, but wouldn't move.   I then took everything off track, and put on an engine that hadn't previously been on the track, and it took off full tilt, like the diesels.

For everything I have thought of, there seems to be a contradiction to it.  Has anyone experienced this?  Better yet; I hope the decoders are OK.  The power supply can be replaced if need be, as well as the processor.  I just absolutely dread sending a bunch of stuff back to BLI for repairs.

Rich

[Hunt]

•   With power off, remove all locomotives from the track.
•   After at least five minutes with power off, turn power on.
•   Test run each locomotive as it is placed back on the track.
•   Place the sound locomotives back on the track last and test run, activate sounds.
•   Tell us what happens.
•   What brand and model DCC command station and power boosters you are using?

[r.cprmier]

Hunt;
Everything is NCE, except three "Tsunami" and one "Bachmann" decoder.

I removed everything earlier, but perhaps didn't give the equipment enough time to "cool down".  It seems like the wierdest thing, because there seems to be no common denominator.  I will get back.
Rich

[r.cprmier]

Hunt;
OK, I turned the power on, and put a "virgin" loco on the track, and it did the same thing-run-away power.  I think perhaps something shorted over in the electronics, and the control is now either bypassed or cooked.  It was OK until I had the two protos on the track, and turned the unit on. 
What I did when I programmed those two:  As I wanted them back-to-back, I programmed both with the same address; as I had installed thedecoder plug in backward on one unit, I felt I had brought both into  the same address with no complications.  Now, in your opinion, would it have been possible that turning the unit on with both units under the same address, created a power surge?  That would be my guess.  UNfortunately, if I am correct, it means a trip to NCE land and a hard lesson learned, I guess.  It seems that the power unit could take more initial demand than two decoders being brought on line at once.  I don't think that anything else on track would have caused it, as their addresses weren't cued in.
One thing:  As you know, I am no expert on this end of the hobby, so I will take all the help I can get.

Rich

[SteamGene]

Rich,
I'm still learning about DCC and you know I don't really do diesels, but everybody I know who run diesels has a separate address for each loco and then consists them, which apparently takes care of the backwards aspect.  OTOH, all my experience is with Digitrax, and that may be somewhat different from NEC
Gene

[r.cprmier]

HI Gene;
Unfortunately for me, I think I should have done just that, but I thought I would give a theory a try; and that was to simply turn the plug 180 degrees on one unit, and then address them both the same.  If that caused the problem, then it was my stupidity that caused it, and I have no one to blame but me.  OTOH, thinking "out of the box" has been a good thing for me in a lot of respects.  I guess that kind of approach is always a gamble. 
Like I said beforehand, I only hope the problem didn't permeate into  the decoders of the equipment on the tracks.  I am hazarding a guess it didn't, but possibly could have screwed up the CVs to a fare thee well.  electron flow has been known to do some wierd things;  If so, lesson learned.

Rich

[guslcp]

Hi Rich,

It's not a good idea to reverse the plug in an installation, just as a matter of principle.  In this case, what you accomplished by turning the plug around could have been done by changing the "normal direction of travel" CV to "reverse".  That would have done it... (hindsight is always 100%...).

Good luck..!!

Gus (LC&P).

[Hunt]

Rich,
Know the reversed decoder or the way you programmed the locomotives in the consist has nothing to do with the issue you have.

When you turned power on, for a brief moment the power draw is almost equal the sum of the stall draw of all the locomotives on the track plus what is needed to charge the capacitors. The NCE command station should protect itself (maybe it did not) from power draw past its rating if that is what you created.

Without any locomotives on the track short circuit the track. After the command station and any booster you have resets then place a locomotive on track. If it takes off … contact NCE.

[r.cprmier]

Hunt;
At any given time, I normally have about 8 or 9 locomotives on track, either working, or awaiting assignment. The sum of the stall draw of ALL the locomotives on the track-plus the cap charge?  That had to be one heck of a hit!  my guess is that the E-6's, just new to the system, were the proverbial straw.  I will try what you say, and see what happens, but my guess is if it didn't "see" the surge and overcurrent condition and cut out, it has sustained some damage, and will probably need repairing.  We'll see.  Thank you very much for the help, and have a good evening.

Rich

[ebtbob]

Rich,

      I have a friend that had a similar experience with respect to turning on his system and having engines just run away.  It turns out,  thru advice from one of the Yahoo DCC groups that he needed to disable the ability to run his decoder equipped engines on a DC powered railroad.  Since then I have heard of,  maybe two more of the same incident,  and the solution was the same,  turn off the DC capability.  Why this would help I have no idea,  but evidently,  my friend has never had this problem since.

Bob

[Hunt]

Rich,
Give what Bob suggest a try.

I thought about suggesting it; but, dismissed it as the conditions addressed by such action (disable power source conversion) I would not expect to be there with only one locomotive on the track unless you did something to your layout’s wiring, DCC power booster or added something to the layout, which now interferes with the DCC signal.

Disable the Power Source Conversion by programming a value of 0 to CV 29, Bit 2. Or the easy way, subtract 4 from the value now in CV 29 and program the answer to CV 29.

[bmjcook]

Gidday Rich
                   Have you tried to reset the decoders back to factory reset? I have been using NCE Radio equipment for 5 years and never had this happen before. That is no good for you but just try a reset and let us know what happens, and best of luck.
                                                    Cookie

[Hunt]

Cookie,
Did you take into consideration Rich wrote,

I then took everything off track, and put on an engine that hadn't previously been on the track, and it took off full tilt, like the diesels.

in making your suggestion for him to try to reset the decoders?

[bmjcook]

Cookie,
Did you take into consideration Rich wrote,

I then took everything off track, and put on an engine that hadn't previously been on the track, and it took off full tilt, like the diesels.

in making your suggestion for him to try to reset the decoders?

Gidday
                         No I didn't, so I guess I will just take off full tilt like the diesels, goodbye
                           Cookie
           

[r.cprmier]

Hunt;
I had done some checking and factored it down to the following:
Considering the possibility of the command unit being fried/damaged;

The BLI decoders are set up differently than either Tsunami or NCE.
The Athearn, as you probably know, are simply a plug in type.
The NCE are also the plug-in type.  No hard-wired units were employed here.
My guess is that, due to decoder internal wiring differences, the Athearn and NCE decoder units will respond at speed to the situation at hand; and the BLI equipment may be different in that nothing will get past the controller without the address being present; but the Tsunami units did emit the "idling sounds" of a drifting steamer; no headlights, whistles, were able to be called on.  My guess, considering that that has always been the case with these units, that the rest of the Tsunami dcoder functions would have to be addressed, like the BLI.  I certainly hope that my guess is correct. 
At any rate, I will find out today, when I call NCE.  Again, Thank you very much for your insight and help.  A thank you also to all who responded with thier thoughts.

RIch