New scales

[WTierce1]

Thanks!   

[J3a-614]

Doneldon's comments about Plymouths being in tourist service follows a number of prototypes, some of which are standard gauge.  Then there is this narrow-gauger from the zoo railroad in Omaha, Neb., no doubt influenced by a popular children's book character, complete with blue paint:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Virgielocomotive0533.jpg

Oh, the horror, the horror! :-)

[Hamish K]

Note that the German branch of Bachmann (Liliput) does produce ready to run HOe (HOn30 in USA terminology) models. Liliput makes 2 different classes of 0-6-2t steam locomotives and 3 different types of diesel locomotives as well as some rolling stock. The prototypes are Austrian, with some also available in German liveries. There are also other European makers of ready to run HOe.

I would have thought that it might be viable for Bachmann to produce some of the On30 models in HOn30 as well, especially now that the reintroduction of the Minitrains range may increase interest in HOn30.

Hamish

[Woody Elmore]

I remember a  German company named Egger Bahn (I think that's the spelling) made HOe at one point. Are they still around and producing trains?

[J3a-614]

Here's what a quickie search found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egger-bahn

http://www.egger-bahn.nl/

Anybody here read German?

[Hamish K]

Egger-Bahn was the brand that popularised HOe in the early 1960s. The original Eggger-Bahn line is long gone. The range, or some of it,  was later produced by Joueff, but this too finished some time ago. More recently some items, and parts to re-motor original locos, have been made by a small company that includes one of the original Egger brothers.  As far as I know this is still current, but I have little information. I recall that the prices for this revival seemed rather high. Egger-Bahn, especial original pre Joueff, models are popular with collectors.

Hamish

[Doneldon]

J3a -

I think I'm gonna be sick...

                  -- D

[J3a-614]

Donaldon, your comment on "Virgie" reminds me of a weird anomolly in the entertainment business.  Specifically, if you want to see American history and the American environment in comtemporary film, you have to see a !@%&$@! cartoon!  Examples:

The Great American Streetcar Scandal (i.e., the motor and oil industry destruction of street railways, otherwise known as United States vs. National City Lines)--"Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"

The effect of a new Interstate bypassing a small town, which about dies--"Cars"

Large, modern steam power in all its glory of smoke, steam, noise, and a coating of winter dirt--"The Polar Express"

What else do we get?  Thomas the Tank Engine is fun, but the knock-offs like Chuffington look awful.  

I think Hollywood is really missing out on something here, especially with some of the vintage literature that's available for adaptation--think of the Eddie Sand stories from Railroad Magazine in the past, plus work by writers such as Herbert Hamblen in "the General Manager's Story,  Frank Spearman in "Held For Orders," and Hollister Noble in "One Way to Eldorado."  Then there are the autobigraphies, such as Edward Custer's "No Royal Road" and Chauncey del French's "Railroadman."  Some vintage films, among them "Union Pacific," "Danger Lights," and "Other Men's Women" (with James Cagney and Joan Blondell in supporting roles!) also show wonderful examples of the power and drama inherent in steam railroading.  There was also a 1957 television series called "Casey Jones" that starred Alan Hale, Jr. in the title role that actually wasn't bad.  

In fact, I spent two years learning to write for television, put together 12 episodes for such a television series (with additional material for another 30 episodes), and couldn't sell it to save my soul.  So much for the "land of opportunity."

What gives with those movie fellows out in California?  How come we who are rail enthusiasts seem to "don't get no respect?"

Trains can be about much, much more than just going from A to B.  The can encompass history, grace, beauty, and poetry in motion, as exemplified in this British Railways ad from 1988, which includes a modifed version of W. H. Auden's "Night Mail:"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_AsS_6klHQ

[Edo]

CNE "How about a model of the narrow gauge railway that ran the length of Bermuda? "
The Bermuda railway was standard gauge and was sold to British Guiana (now Guiana) over 60 years ago. Only Narrow Gauge was a very short line owned by Vincent Astor. Out of service for many years.

[CNE Runner]

After spending a couple of 'sickening minutes' looking at the image J3a-614 provided; I resolved to try and identify this maligned critter.

Utilizing Jay Reed's excellent reference source [Critters, Dinkys & Centercabs], I was able to positively identify it as a Plymouth Locomotive Works product. The louvered engine compartment doors suggested it was pre-1957 (when screening replaced the louvers). The overall body style (and underframe setup) strongly pointed to an 'M' model (specifically MDT). We have no idea how modified this engine is - so I will go out on a limb and say it is: a pre-1957 Plymouth MDT (35-ton), narrow gauge. Why narrow gauge?..because of the 'notched' front windows and outside frame. The only part, of my analysis, that I am not comfortable with is the identification as a 35-tonner. This locomotive seems to have an awfully thick deck (more analogous to a 40-ton model) - however I see no indication of a diagonal underframe gusset located between the wheels.

I hope you find this interesting and germane,
Ray

[J3a-614]

Reposted from the Smaller Loco Suggestions thread; has some Plymouth and other industrial power here, both standard and narrow gauge.

We start off with a master link, Northeast Railfan (which also has a number of photo rosters, including B&O and CNJ we've been using elsewhere):

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/industrial.html

This is just some of what is here:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel100.htm

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel112.html

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/porter/porter-ind.html

http://www.over-land.com/rrporter.html

Six pages on Plymouth Locomotives, from Plymouth, Ohio; item of note, most were shipped via the B&O, suggesting some interesting flat car loads.  Most photos on this site can be enlarged by clicking on them:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel81.html

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/plw1987.jpg

Look who owned this one!

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_bo25.jpg

Another interesting owner, and check out the exhaust stacks:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pe1646.jpg

Amherst Barge in West Virginia:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ahs0.jpg

This one is the prototype for a Mantua/Tyco model from the early 1960s:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3.jpg

It's supposed to be a different locomotive from the link above, but I'm not so sure.  In any event, it's the same type, on the standard-gauge section of the East Broad top Railroad and Coal Company; photo locations are at Mt. Union, Pa.:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3a.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3b.jpg

For plow, work, and towing service on transit lines, Boston and San Francisco, the latter on 5' 3" gauge:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/mbta04443.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bart0.jpg

A burly 100 tonner on narrow gauge, for Bethlehem Steel:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bscx30.jpg

I believe Model Railroad once published drawings for this one:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ils49.jpg

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1914456

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_moy58.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cc106-6.jpg

Westinghouse page:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel109.html

This Westinghouse unit is preserved and reported operational at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum in Washington, Pa.--a museum I can personally recommend:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_arm_b73.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/arm_b73a.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=254284

A sister unit, No. 71, which, judging from the background, is also preserved:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ascB71.jpg

The photo says this is on the Northampton & Bath, but I'm not sure; she looks more like something from eastern Europe than North America, and what steam locomotive is that behind the diesel?

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_nb1601.jpg

Can't ignore industrial steam:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/industrial_steam.html

Proper locomotives are painted black and burn coal--except when they don't:

http://www.nrhs.com/web_exclusives/fireless_cooker/index.html

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam21.html

It's surprising how common some of these Porter "fireless cookers" once were, and late in era, too; some have been running in recent years.  And take note, in the first photo, of the big 0-8-0 Heisler job in the background; it's still around, in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ppl4093a.jpg

Same engine some years later--"Take that, Thomas!":

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=244912

Another shot of the Heisler 0-8-0:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_ppl4094.jpg

One of two common later designs from Porter:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-u/ues-s4ags.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/porter/page48h.jpg

The other was an 0-6-0; reportedly one of these engines was still in use at a power plant in Pennsylvania at least into the 1980s, and was rigged up for remote control, like some diesels in steel plants:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-p/pplc-sunk-bv.jpg

C&O had three of these 0-6-0Fs, for use in the literally explosive atmosphere of the chemical plants in Charleston, W.Va.  The were replaced with diesels, which had to use a "handle" of up to six idler flats to reach into some of the areas these steamers could go with safety.  The photo location is at the yard and locomotive facility in South Charleston; the wooden trestle in the background is the southern approach to a bridge over the Kanawha River that lead to an interchange with the B&O (former Coal & Coke) and New York Central (former Kanawha & Michigan) lines on the north bank.  This bridge was also shared with the local trolley system until that service dried up in the late 1930s.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co-s35qlr.jpg

This site is so useful, I'm posting it here.  Most of it is class 1 and diesel, but there is much else, too.  Mr. Elwood deserves great credit for sharing so many photos.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/#c

Enjoy

[CNE Runner]

The Plymouth locomotive pictured in this shot

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3.jpg

and provided by J3a-614 is a Model CR-4. The CR-4 was introduced in 1960 and was available in weight ranges from 20 to 60 tons (track gauges 30" to 48.5" - horsepower from 150 to 700). This locomotive model was designed primarily for industrial and light foreign use. You might have noticed that it is not available in standard U.S. gauge (56.5"). I should also point out that this model featured a center cab arrangement.

Ray

[J3a-614]

Well, that's interesting! If that's the case, then what is the very similar looking model on the standard gauge track at Mt. Union, which I've actually seen?

I have to admit, this business of identifying these critters is a bit out of my league.  It's as different a world from standard railroading as logging roads, and with small and sometimes obscure builders, and production that undoubtedly includes a lot of custom work and one-off models.

That's one of the fascinating things about this hobby--no one can know everything!

[CNE Runner]

The most unusual 'spotting feature' of the locomotive in my (and your) previous post is the shark nose. Only the CR models were styled in this manner. There were 3 CR Plymouth models (although the CR-6 was planned - but never built). Of the remaining two CR models the image you have provided is clearly a CR-4 (the CR-8 and 8XT were all 8-wheeled models and not relevant in this case).

The Plymouth CR-4 is a very rare critter and I am surprised to hear that you have actually seen one. Plymouth Locomotive Works only built five of these models (1957 - 1965); but discontinued production when it became apparent the CR was no improvement over the MDT model. Oh, of the five CR-4s built, one was exported out of the U.S...leaving only four stateside.

Please keep in mind, J3a-614, that many of these little engines were extensively modified over their working life...perhaps the one you saw was modified for standard gauge. I happen to possess an original sales brochure for the CR line and it clearly states under track gauge "...30 to 48.5". BUT in the supplied technical schematic (part of the same brochure) it shows a width of 10' 0", a height of 10' 6", and a distance between the flanges of ('ready for this?) 4' 8.5"!!!! Apparently the sales department and the technical lads were on different wavelengths.

I hope this answer your question...I enjoyed the research.
Ray

BTW: the CR-4 was the basis for Mantua's HO model.

[J3a-614]

Thanks for the research!

These are the photos of the one I got to see:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3a.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lbr3b.jpg

As you noted, it looks like the machine actually was available as a standard gauge job.  All those dimensions you mention, including an overall width of 10', are suggestive of a standard gauge unit.

The one I saw was at the Mount Union Connecting Railroad in Mt. Union, Pa.  This is the standard and dual gauge portion of the famous East Broad Top Railroad & Coal Company.  The purpose of this firm is to reopen the northern 3 miles of so of the EBT from Mt. Union to the Riverview Business Center industrial park south of Allenport.

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/News/mucrr.html

Scroll down to 2003:

http://www.railfanusa.com/pics/mtc.html

Other photos:

http://www.dementia.org/~adams/ebt/2003apr10/2003apr10thumb.html

http://www.dementia.org/~adams/ebt/2003apr10/ramphelp-h.jpg

http://www.dementia.org/~adams/ebt/2003apr10/portrait-h.jpg

Self-propelled equipment roster (motor cars and locomotives other than steam, plus MoW equipment); Mt. Union Connecting (MTC) 3 was built by Plymouth in June of 1960 for Jones & Laughlin, and carries builder's No. 6216CR4, and weighs 60 tons;

http://www.parails.com/ebtrr/post56.html

Talk about a rare bird!  And the thing shares space in an enginehouse in Mt. Union with a standard gauge EBT steam switcher!

http://www.ebtrr.com/index.php

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/

http://www.ebtrr.com/equip/

"Modern" equipment on this railroad:

http://www.ebtrr.com/equip/diesel.html

I had the chance to speak to Allen Levin about a year or two ago in Mt. Union when the enginehouse up there was open during one of EBT's fall events.  He mentioned the Mantua/Tyco model, and said the model is apparently rare enough that some of his model railroading aquaintences didn't believe it had been made, and he was looking for one to prove them wrong.

Wonder what I should do with the model I own, which is orange and silver and lettered for General Electric?

For the record, I do not consider it one of Mantua's best efforts.  It has brass wheels that are very sensitive to dirt (and will pick up dirt and tarnish at the drop of a hat); other than this it does run halfway decently, especially considering its age and what I assume to be a toy market target.  The mechanism looks like it might be very similar if not identical to that of a 4-wheel trolley Mantua offered in about the same time period.  And part of it is riveted together for permanence!  

What were the designers thinking?  

What were the designers drinking?  

Argh!

Again, thanks for looking things up!

Another Plymouth center-cab job (8 wheel) on another famous late steam railroad, the Buffalo Creek & Gauley (actually on parent Elk River Coal & Lumber Co.), Plymouth Diesel No. 20:

http://buffalocreekandgauley.com/LOCOMOTIVES/ERCL/ERCLLocos.html

Home page:

http://buffalocreekandgauley.com/index.html

I strongly recommend looking around the BC&G site above; it's one cool place about one cool and unusual railroad.