Bachmann HO 52' Flat Cars

[caracolesa]

Hi all,

I know absolutely nothing about trains, and this might be a stupid question, so I apologise in advance!

A friend of mine has about 10 of the above cars, and I was wondering what sort of engine he would need for them?  He was given them by his grandfather, and has never run them before.  I wanted to buy him the engine as a gift.  Would any Bachmann HO engine be fine, or are there specific ones required to run all 10 at once?  Or would he need multiple engines no matter which one it was, given the number of cars?

Thanks in advance!

[ABC]

It depends on the layouts grades(inclines) and the sharpness of the curves. I would suggest no diesels with more than four axles (8 wheels) or steam engines with more than 3 drive wheels and any lead or trailing trucks. If your friend has 18" radius curves, he will not be able to run most locomotives due to the sharp curves and the length of the locomotives. I would suggest any diesel with four axles, as the smaller steam locos do not pull as well and the diesels are cheaper too. Just don't get the Plymouth (3 axles) or anything with 6 axles, because they may have problems on tight curves.

[jbsmith]

just about any diesel will do.
Examples: GP-38, GP-40, GP-7, or the FT or even the F-9.
One engine will handle 10 flats without any problem.

[caracolesa]

Thank you so much!

I think he was just initially looking at a straight track with two rounded ends (the circles of which have a radius of about 25cm, but what that equals to as a curve, I don't know).  Essentially, the track is coming straight up the middle of the table, then doing a circle, and going back down the middle and doing a circle at the other end.  The entire track is only 12m long, and is completely flat at this stage.

Would something like this engine be suitable?  http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200476682536&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[jbsmith]

yes that GP-35 would be just fine.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear caracolesa,

25 cm Radius seems like N gauge track, not HO. 

Please give us the dimensions of the table (length and width).

Please measure the gauge of the track, in mm, which is the inside distance between the tops of the rail heads. 

       <here  to here>
      I                      I
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/                                \
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Is there one straight running down the middle (with a turnout at each end) or two straights (no turnouts)?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[Doneldon]

caracoles

The loco you show would be just fine, as far as pulling power, and Favorite Spot is an excellent reseller.  As a Bachmann retailer, their Bachmann merchandise has full warranty.

I  am concerned about two things.  One is the 25cm radius you report.  That's only about 10" and neither the Bachmann loco nor the flat cars will clear such sharp curves.  The other is the idea of two loops with a straight section between.  That means he'll have two of what are called reverse loops.  These require some special attention in wiring and he will stay very busy running the electricity to avoid shorts and unintended stops.  

Fortunately, one solution solves both problems: Make an oval around the table rather than two loops plus straight.  An oval only has 360^o of curviture and no electrical reversing sections.  That means wiring is much more simple, the train should operate without a lot of monkeying around or fancy wiring, and he can widen his curves dramatically.  That is, he'll have 360^o of curves versus 720^o.  He'll also have two longer straight sections instead of one shorter one.  He may need a couple of extra pieces of straight track but that is compensated for by needing fewer curved sections.  Depending on the width of the table, he may even be able to go to 22" radius curves which looks better and opens up more options for locos and rolling stock.  Of course, that will also add some cost.

One final note.  Everything I've written so far is baloney if your friend really has N-gauge track.  The 25 cm makes me wonder about that.  It's easy to tell the difference.  HO is roughly 5/8" between the rails.  N is more like 3/8"  If it turns out he has N you may want to repost this for feedback under N-gauge.

I think you are a good and aware friend to see his need for his hobby and be willing to help him with it.  I can't tell you how great I felt the first time my wife gave me a train-related gift.  It felt like she was tuned into my interests.  I congratulate you and I envy your friend for having you.

                                                                       --D

[caracolesa]

Thanks jbsmith!

Joe Satnik, we don't have the track yet.  However, our local train store has HO track which is flexible, so he can make the corners pretty much whatever he wants (from what they have reported to me - maybe they weren't telling the truth?).  The table is 4.8m by 0.8m, but the radius of the circles at the end will be approximately 25cm (or diameter 50cm, or circumference 157cm - bearing in mind they won't be perfect circles as they will be coming from a straight track and going back into a straight track).

Doneldon, Is the wiring difficult?  As I said initially, he was given the flat cars by his grandfather, and he hasn't previously done anything with trains.  His grandfather recently passed away and he wants to start up to sort of honour his memory, I think.  As for making a large oval around the table, that might be possible, but I think he had plans for the sides.  I will have to ask him.

Thanks for everyone's help!

[Doneldon]

caracolesa -

Flex track is a good product but be aware that just because you can bend flex track into very tight curves doesn't mean your trains will be able to negotiate them.  Other than very, very small locomotives like single truck diesels and four- or maybe six-wheeled tank steamers, no motive power can make such curves.  And your rolling stock will be limited to very short cars like ore cars, bobber cabeese, and perhaps some other freight cars which are no longer than three inches.  For passengers, nothing will work other than  Walthers Piker or Oscar.

I assume your friend will be using DC wiring.  This means he'll have to electrically isolate both ends of the track within each loop, have feeder wires to all three resulting sections (in train parlance, blocks), and throw an electrical switch (DPST) which changes the polarity of the straight section every time he reenters it.  This means twice for every round trip.  If he wants to be able to run the trains both ways around the loops he'll also need switches to change the polarities of the loops (also DPST).  The whole thing could be simplified with DCC but that will add an unjustifiable expense for such a minimalist layout.  Similarly, your friend can use electronic train detectors and relays so the layout operates itself but that would add considerable expense and complicated wiring.  I sure couldn't recommend either of these last two alternatives for such a compact and simple track plan.

                                                           -- D

[ABC]

No Bachmann rolling stock (freight cars) can physically go around 25 cm radius curves except for maybe ore cars or a bobber caboose and they might not even make it. The 52' flat cars will not negotiate 25 cm radius curves. The only Bachmann locos that can negotiate those curves are a MDT Plymouth, GE 44 Tonner (2 motor), and the 45 Tonner, no other locos can make it. The Plymouth cannot pull all those flat cars and is limited to only 3 cars or so. The 44 and 45 tonners can only pull about 6 cars without slipping.
I strongly suggest your friend use a minimum radius of 52 cm or greater and preferably 56 cm radius curves. Your friend will deeply regret it if he uses 25 cm radius because he will find none of his cars will run on the track and all but 3 locomotives (2 expensive and 1 a poor puller) might run on that radius, but you would need to have perfect track laid.

[caracolesa]

Wow.  Who knew such tiny trains needed such large curves!

What if he added two tables to the end of the first table, which are 1.8m x 0.75m.  Would that make any difference?  The layout would then look like a very wide H.

[Doneldon]

caracolesa -

Length isn't the issue; it's the tightness of the curves. 

I notice you mention the trains are tiny.  I suggest agin that you make certain the trains are HO or all of the advice various people have put here is irrelevant. 

                                                                        -- D

[jward]

at a minimum, your friend will need a table width of 1m. that works out to 39.37 inches, and a standard HO 18" radius curve will fit on that width, but JUST BARELY..... i'd highly advise going with a table width of a standard sheet of plywood. in the usa it is 4' x 8', which works out to about 1.2m  x 2.4m.......this will give you a curve that these cars are proven to work on, and the extra width will keep your track set back from the edges enough that a derailed train won't hit the floor.

i would HIGHLY advise against using any curves less than 18" radius or 45cm with HO guage. the sharper curves are simply not worth the trouble.

[caracolesa]

Doneldon - I meant they were tiny in comparison to real trains.  They are HO, trust me.

Jward - So all problems will be solved if he widens the width to 1.2m?

Sorry for all the questions - everyone has been very helpful!

[ABC]

So all problems will be solved if he widens the width to 1.2m?

If his loop appears as follows, then yes, if not then no
   _____
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\_____ /
If his loop is as follows you will need several toggle switches for polarity:
  /\___/\
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