Refurbishing ROLLING STOCK

[Flyer]

Which is best, metal wheels and plastic axles OR plastic wheels and metal axles in PLASTIC TRUCKS.  Your reasoning for whichever you have chosen.  Would the same reasoning hold true for METAL TRUCKS?? Many thanks for your thoughts!  Cheers, JWY

[Nigel]

metal wheels - cleanliness of track.

I have not noticed any difference in metal vs plastic axles - BUT the axle length must match the length the truck was designed for.

Needle point axles (in the appropriate trucks) roll better than any other choice, except maybe the InterMountain ball bearing wheels.

[CNE Runner]

You have included some good questions Flyer. What I am putting forth is MY opinion and what has worked best for me. I am sure there will be other opinions offered by other posters.

The rolling stock, you are trying to refurbish, probably has plastic bolsters (the pieces into which the wheel sets are fitted). They should be OK as I have yet to have a problem with [even] cheaper plastic bolsters. A wheel tuner from Micro Mark is a good investment as it will make sure the bearing surfaces are in line and shaped correctly. [Check them out at www.micromark.com]

Metal wheels are your best choice as they remain clean longer than plastic (has to do with physics and particle attraction). I have used metal wheels from Walthers (P2K), Kadee, and Branchline...no problems with any of them.

If you are changing really cheap trucks (usually the ones that have the coupler attached to the truck...think: Tyco); you are probably ahead of the game by changing out the trucks and wheels. I have had good success with Kadee in this regard.

The only downside to metal wheels is that they are noisier than plastic. The nice 'clackity-clack' that metal wheels make as they run over the rail joints can get a bit deafening when several (long) trains are running at the same time.

Good luck,
Ray

Check out this website for more information on electrostatic attraction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatics

[Doneldon]

Flyer-

Metal wheels by all means.  They stay cleaner longer, are less likely to make track dirty than plastic, and they roll with less effort.  The sideframe material doesn't matter so much unless the trucks are sprung, and that almost certainly means metal.  (By the way, I'm pretty sure that CNE meant sideframes when he said bolster in his earlier post.  The bolster is the beam on the bottom of the car which sits on the truck.)  CNE's suggestion about the journal reamer is an excellent one.  Once you decide on trucks and wheels, go through all of your rolling stock to check compliance with your standard so you'll know what needs to be changed.  At the same time, check your wheel gauge for every axle and make sure the trucks are attached to the cars in a way which allows for a "three-point stance."  That means that one truck is left loose enough to permit the car to rock on the truck and the other is tight enough to permit only pivoting.

          --D

[jward]

definitely metal wheels, but metal wheels with metal axles. i had a problem some years ago with plastic axles warping on me and find the metal axles are wrth the little bit extra you'd pay for them. with a truck tuning tool, metal axles should roll freely in even the cheapest truck frames.

[richg]

Metal wheels. I sometimes buy wheelset's bulk, 100 per package from my LHS. $66.00.
I use a digital caliper and measure the total axle length then order the nearest Reboxx wheelset.
There are times the bulk stuff is sloppy in some plastic truck frames so I use the nearest Reboxx wheelset.

Rich

[jonathan]

I prefer metal wheels, for the reasons stated above.

I haven't had any warping with plastic axles, so I have no preference between metal or plastic axles.

However, if I am going to use the wheels for current pick up, like a tender or lighting a caboose, I prefer the plastics axles.  All metal wheels are insulated on one side, but I don't want to take the chance of accidentally making contact with the axles with wires or metal screws.

Oh, plastic trucks over metal trucks, definitely.  Once upon a time, rolling stock had plastic wheels with metal trucks and real shock absorbing springs.  It may be that I have too many thumbs, but the whole set up seemed a bit messy and could fall apart if you bumped it the wrong way.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Woody Elmore]

Jon - the old schoolers among us will remember that really good sprung trucks didn't come apart. Central Valley trucks were all metal and well made. Kadee trucks also were, and I assume are, well made.

I agree with using metal wheels. There are those who say that metal wheels cause more drag. That may be but I think cars with metal wheels track better and are just less trouble.

[Doneldon]

Woody and Others -

I see you remember the days of good sprung trucks.  But do you remember trying to assemble the sprung trucks in Athearn and other kits?  What a nightmare.  Even with 11-year-old eyes and fingers it was TOUGH.  I'm not so certain I'd like to try it today.

I still have some of the old equipment with the self-assembled sprung trucks and they work just fine.  If one breaks, I replace with something from my stash of CVs.  Nothing beats them. 

Actually, those old trucks do break with some regularity.  Unlike CVs, they were just pot metal and it gets pretty brittle with age.  It's hard to figure that.  Metal seems unchangeable without the application of some outside influence.  I guess tincture of time can be that factor.

     --D

[CNE Runner]

D - The trick, with regards to replacing those pesky truck springs, was to use a bit of thread. The thread was 'threaded' (what else?) through the spring BEFORE it was compressed to fit into the bolster sides. If the spring..well...sprung - it couldn't go anywhere. If the spring happened to get away from you, take a flashlight (not the one you use to store dead batteries) - place it parallel to the floor and 'sweep' the light across the surface. All manner of objects (dust bunnies, cat litter, staples, AND errant springs) will show up. I think sprung trucks rode better than solid units - but that may be just my imagination.

Ray

[Doneldon]

Ray-

Yes, I eventually learned the thread trick and I knew the light across the floor trick, too.  The latter doesn't always work on carpet.  I was really just waxing nostalgic about the good old days of youth.

                     --D

[Woody Elmore]

I had forgotten about the problems with zamac and other pot metal castings. Yup, the trucks were brittle. Varney was a serious offender in part, I think, to a general downgrading of the line as Gordon Varney retired.

I remember when Lindberg brought out their trucks - they were all delrin and very slick. I don't remember a problem with Lindberg springs. My problem was that I liked metal wheels.

If you remember, the really old Athearn kits came with a rubber insert in place of the springs. I can remember going to Polk's Hobbies on Fifth Avenue and actually buying truck springs. I didn't know about the old "piece of thread" trick but somehow I managed to get springs into the trucks to relace the ugly rubber things.

Today's RTR freight cars are two or three evolutions better than the $1.29 Athearn boxcar in detail but the older Athearns, and MDC as well, will still fit in with today's equipment.

[CNE Runner]

...and who among us older rounders can forget Athearn's Hi-F drive. For you younguns take out the modern gearing (and reliable can motor) and replace it with an open frame motor driving two driveshafts. Connecting the driveshafts with the wheel axles were rubber bands! The locomotives worked OK with a few cars and no grades when new. After a short time the rubber band expanded and a larger grain of dust would cause the engine to remain in place - motor screaming and rubber bands slipping.

Ah yes...brass track, Atlas 'crash-n-bash turnouts, flex track secured to die-punched fiber ties (held in place with staples), bird cage gravel for ballast, hook horn (X2F) couplers, plastic rolling stock that was so light it could fly (and did sometimes in the hands of a pre-teenager)...those were the days.

On the flipside of that situation was the fact that we had to be very creative in building a layout. Remember paper structures that used to be cut out of a book? [They are back - much, much improved by firms like Paper Creek.]

I bring up this short nostalgic walk through the past as encouragement to modelers, like Flyer, who are willing to put some effort in the improvement of their rolling stock...you carrying on a long and cherished tradition.

I hope the advice given, by myself and others, was helpful.

Regards,
Ray

[Stephen D. Richards]

Even helped us old guys who are new to the hobby but still remember and know what you're talking about!  lol  Personaly, I use delrin trucks (usually not sprung) and Intermountain or Bachmann metal wheelsets, with metal axles, and they do really great.  I measure and assign my locomotives by the amount of weight  (number of cars properly weighted) they can pull.  I try to mimic the real thing as much as I understand it.  (learning everyday too).  I have more than doubled the amount of rolling stock my locos can pull or push.  Thanks to the info I have received from this site.  Stephen

[Woody Elmore]

A friend had an Athearn HiF drive RDC - that thing was a bullet! When the rubber bands began to stretch the RDC would act like it had a clutch drive. I never saw one but I believe their tank engine had HiF drive.

The fiber track was around a long time. If you ballasted the track with a water based glue, the glue would seep into the fiber ties and then you had out of gauge track. The plastic tie sectional track was a big improvement. A fellow I knew who modeled On3 used to take the Atlas fiber tie switches and regauge them - it was easy to do with the fiber ties and staples.

I remember rudimentary paper building kits - and freight car kits with paper sides.  How many people bought the Suydam metal building kits?

The hobby has come leaps and bound from the HiF, x2f era.