Wiring EZ track with 2 concentric circles

[Law Dawg 86]

Help!! I am not an electrician, but I am having wiring problems. I have 2 concentric circles joined by 2 crossovers, Bachmann #44575 &76. I am also using 9" gapped power sections.Bachmann#44597. In the inner circle I have  2 turnout sidings. I want to have the sidings powered at will; I want to operate 2 trains independently. I looked at the Atlas wiring book, fig4-13, but it is no help. How can I SIMPLY wire this thing. I am not a full time hobbyist. This train set will not remain up all year, so I want simple wiring. Thanks.

[Doneldon]

Law Dog-

Your question has more than one answer, depending on a few other considerations.  How into model railroading are you?  How many trains do you want to run at a time?  What power sources and equipment, if any, do you already have?  What is your budget?  How large will your layout be?  Do you just want to run trains in loops or do you plan to do some switching and operations?  How handy are you?  Do you like features such as sound and lighting effects?  And others.  But for simplicity's sake I'll try to offer just two responses.

If you have only a casual interest and will only operate one train at a time, don't bother with the gapped tracks.  Just connect one power pack to the layout, maybe at more then one place depending on the size of your railroad.  You will still be able to enjoy limited light and sound features if you purchase the right locomotives, and you will be able to do limited operations.  If you wish more elaborate operations, wire the loops separately from one another, probably separating the loops in the crossovers, and use either two powerpacks or a power pack and a second throttle.  With double-throw switches (electrical switches, not turnouts) it will be possible to run two locos on the separated tracks (blocks) simultaneously.

If your layout is larger and your interest is more than a passing one, you may wish to go with a DCC system.  This will allow you to operate more than one locomotive at a time, at different speeds, in different directions, on the same track.  You will be able to take advantage of the full array of sound and light effects.  Be aware that this will cost more than a simple DCC layout.  How much more depends on you.  You can pick up the most elementary DCC system (Bachmann EZ Command) for $75-90 on ebay, but you will be limited to 10 locos and minimal access to sound and light effects.  Complexity, operational opportunity and cost go up from there, to many hundreds of dollars.  If this is to still be a relatively casual hobby and you don't want to sink a lot of money in there are many price points between $75 and $lots of.  Bachmann offers its Dynamis system which yo can get for much less than $200, maybe as little as $125 on ebay.  It will give you several orders of magnitude in additional versatility versus the  EZ System.  And so it goes, with ever more sophisticated systems available at ever more sophisticated prices.  If I may add a personal opinion, it seems as though there is a point, maybe around $250, beyond which the cost increases are comparatively large while the sophistication increases are more modest.  This is the (in?)-famous law of diminishing returns.  Only you can decide how fancy you want to go and how deep you are willing to dig to get there.

A few other personal observations:  Watching trains go around in circles gets boring pretty fast.  Despite the complexity which DCC offers, it is just as easy, if not easier, to wire than a DC layout.  You might want to spend some time at a model railroad club, or at least reading model railroading magazines, to help you decide how deeply you want to go in the activity, what kind of model railroading (contemporary, vintage, steam, diesel, electric, operations, scenic runs. etc.) you want to do, and how much space you can devote to the hobby which will affect the gauge (size - N, HO, O) you want to model in.  Another consideration might be how close you live to a real hobby shop where you can purchase supples and, more important, get good advice. 

So you have homework to do before you make some very important decisions.  I have tried to paint the ends of the continuum in operating systems: a simple out of the box DC system (AC in O-scale) and a more elaborate, complex DCC system.  Good luck with your research and decision making, and welcome to the hobby!

          --D

[Joe Satnik]

Dear LD,

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,11457.0.html

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[Law Dawg 86]

Joe, Thanks for your in depth response, and I apologize for not getting back sooner. I have a dual controller that will operate 2 cabs. All I want is 2 locomotives. The layout is 4 x9. You spoke of insulating at the crossovers. How is this done? I have two crossovers, one on each side of the loops. I am going to guess that at some place at or near each crossover I will use an insulated plastic rail joiner, and if so does it make a difference which rail is selected? Once done will this still allow trains to crossover to the opposite loop, or will they come to a halt on the crossover, and if so how is that remedied? Thanks

[Law Dawg 86]

Joe, or anyone: If I would go to a DCC set up, do I get wiring assistance say if I bought the Bachmann E-z controller? I am guessing that it is the basic system for E-Z track system. I am not thinking of anything approaching 10 Loco, but if going DCC will simplify wiring I am leaning to it. Thanks.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear LD,

No cuts or isolation needed for DCC. 

A simple "DC block" layout of two properly isolated (modified) crossovers connecting 2 concentric ovals does not need any insulating rail joiners. 

The two "blocks" are 1.) the complete inner loop, and 2.) the complete outer loop.

If you want each of your loops divided into more blocks, then yes, you will need insulated plastic rail joiners to isolate each block, plus a method of getting power to the rails inside each block.   

The gaps in the two rails that are cut on each crossover need to be filled with plastic and epoxied to maintain each gap.  If not, the rails might slide into contact with each other, causing a short between the inner and outer oval.

Simple DC block wiring, as shown in Atlas Book #12, "The Complete Atlas Wiring Book", will allow your trains to crossover without any problems.  In this case, I believe they use a #215 "Selector" to choose which power-pack (or "cab") to send to the block, or loop in question. 

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik       

[ABC]

Law Dawg 86,
The Bachmann E-Z Command System itself cannot run more than three locos simultaneously, although it has ten buttons, it can only run two or three at a time that is without a booster which will run you an additional $150 to $300 depending on what you get and where you get it.

[Doneldon]

LD-

Joe's post explains the way to insulate at the crossovers which I mentioned in my earlier post.  Also, ABC is correct in saying that the EZCom will only run three (maybe four if they're small) locos at a time.  It's hard to imagine needing simultaneous running of more than that on a smal layout.   The ten locos I mentioned refers to the EZCom's ability to remember the addresses for ten locos.

I'm glad to hear that you do have DCC.  Not only will it serve you well, it also offers the possibility of building a reverse loop into your 4x9 without having to turn yourself inside out with the wiring.

          --D

[Law Dawg 86]

Just a follow up: I believe DCC is the way to go. With that in mind it appears from what I have read each engine has its own decoder. Where do you purchase these? Next, it also looks like in addition to the basis unit you also need a hand held controller to put in the commands. Is this correct? Next, what recommendations would you have for a small operation that would have 4 locomotives?

It was also mentioned that you would have to isolate the two concentric circles with crossovers. Is this where you would have to use plastic rail joiners?

I am thankful for this forum and everyone's understanding as I am a rookie. Thanks for all your help.

[Joe323]

Based on what I have read:

If you use DCC should not have to isolate the 2 circles into blocks.  In fact that's whole point of DCC it turns your layout into a network with each loco operating independently as clients and the command center as the server.

If your into computers think of it this way each loco has its own IP address on the intranet you've created.and functions independently of each other by taking data (or in this case commands) from the central server.

[OldTimer]

If you will look to the left, you'll see a red menu.  One of the menu items is E-Z Command.  There you will find a good explaination of the E-Z Command  system.  Other manufacturers (Lenz, MRC, Digitrax, etc.) have their own web sites with similar information.  I would encourage you to do some homework before you start spending money.  Each system has it's pro's and con's and there is no one right answer for everyone.

As far as decoders are concerned, I think I would suggest that you buy a couple of locomotives with decoders already installed.  There's not much difference in cost and you'll learn what to expect from a properly installed decoder and won't have to disassemble anything.  Again, you have several sources including Bachmann, Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis, Bowser and others.
Old Timer

[Law Dawg 86]

I appreciate all the help to date. I do have a question about DCC decoders. I have three Athearn locos that are DCC ready. I take it I need to add a decoder. So, does that mean an 8 pin plug in, or the Decoder with wiring harness? Thanks

[OldTimer]

DCC ready typically means that there is a socket into which you can plug a (usually) NMRA medium 8-pin plug.  I would begin by reading the documentation that came with your locomotives.  If that is not helpful, then you will need to remove the body shell and check things out.  Athearn also has a web site that you might look at.  I would also investigate decoder manufacturer web sites.  They usually have a decoder finder feature that lets you enter your loco model and then it suggests a decoder.  Good Luck.
Old Timer

[ABC]

Why don't you just pop the shell off and take a look to see what type of socket it has, I think it has a spot for either a 8 or 9 pin plug.

[Doneldon]

LD-

Once you determine which decoders you want you can go shopping on the web or in MR to find a fair price.  ebay is also good but you never know if what you need will be listed until you have a brand and model number for the decoder and then go to ebay to find out.  ebay is a lousy place to try to identify the decoder you need as the information in most of the listings is deficient and you can waste a lot of time going from listing to listing.  The check is very quick and easy once you have the brand and part number.  

Do consider if you want or will want sound as it's generally cheaper to buy one decoder rather than a loco control decoder and a separate sound decoder (plus, it makes operation a little more complicated).  Also, keep in mind what DCC system you'll be using.  For example, if you choose Bachmann's EZCom, and it is a legitimate option, there will be little justification for spending the coin for a premium decoder as the EZCom system won't be able to take advantage of much of the versatility a sophisticated decoder offers.

Once again, welcome and good luck.

         --D