Place and Time

[NMWTRR]

Really enjoyed reading all of the imaginative and real areas that folks have modeled. 

I have two small layouts:

N scale that is set somewhere in West Virginia. I lived for a short time in Charleston. Has a coal mine and a small city.

My HO Scale layout is set where I went to College in La's Cruses New Mexico.  It is a fictional branch line from La's Cruses to Alamogordo aka New Mexico and West Texas RR.  I have tried to model several buildings in La's Cruses and have found that was a lot of fun.

Very interesting how many people on this thread have modeled West Virginia...

[NMWTRR]

Believe me I can Spell Las Cruces but spell chekc fixed it for me

[J3a-614]

Well, let's see what we can come up with for photos;

This is supposed to be Wheeling, but I can't really tell (it's just a roster shot):

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo1386s.jpg

Out of service in Benwood in 1933; these engines were called "Snappers" on the B&O:

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002432

Benwood again:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo1952s.jpg

Down the river in St. Marys, W.Va.; engine is Class E-24, copy of PRR H6, this one still has flat valves and Stephenson valve gear:

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002438

E-27 at Benwood:

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002443

B&O had a lot of older engines, some of its own, and others inherited in mergers.  This is a former Coal & Coke engine at Benwood:

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002452

Stored serviceable in the Depression at Benwood:

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002541

Supposedly Benwood in 1949--but blast, no landmarks to confirm the location:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7163s.jpg

Not really Benwood, but it looks to be close by, either down the river a way, or just across it in Ohio on the way to Holloway:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo657s.jpg

Sad photo; a beautiful beast, awaiting death by fire; note how the engine and especially the tender ride a little high, due to no water in boiler or tank; also, take note of the auxiliary tender couple behind, perhaps homemade, perhaps made from a tank car.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s674.jpg

Former E-27 2-8-0, now class L-2 0-8-0, at Benwood, identifiable by a brick building barely visible in the background that I believe is still there:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo841s.jpg

Supposedly Benwood in 1947 (no landmarks visible); if date is correct, the diesels are taking their toll:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5100s.jpg

This is more like it, even though the Depression stalks the land:

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002493

A blue 4-6-2 in Benwood (there's that building in the background mentioned above):

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s106ags.jpg

Descending from the Ohio River bridge into Benwood; large junction with a double slip switch, yet not interlocked and operated by switch tenders is just ahead, and the train is also passing the two-level station that was at this location:

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002454

Benwood:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo4190s.jpg

Behind the roundhouse at Benwood, and awaiting the end:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s476.jpg

Not identified, but looks like Benwood again:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s413.jpg

Some distance out in Holloway, Oh., but a good Q-4 shot:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo4436s.jpg

This is supposed to be Benwood in 1955, but I don't recognize the cranes in the background; the presence of what looks like a C&O hopper in the background suggests to me this may actually be Huntington:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo4465s.jpg

Across the river in Holloway; I remember the newspaper story about the night that wooden roundhouse burned in the late 1960s or early 1970s:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo505s.jpg

Hump service at Holloway:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo506s.jpg

Benwood in 1989; I like the way things used to be:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-benyd-arw.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-benyd-brw.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-benyd-erw.jpg

Sixth Street Station in Parkersburg in the 1970s--gone:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-parsta-goa.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-parsta-gob.jpg

From the mouth of Tunnel No. 1, also called Tunnel Green, looking west; the Ohio River is beyond the ridge, the bridge crosses Big Wheeling Creek on its way to the street track age down 17th Street and the B&O station, and I-70 and its tunnels would be later built just out of sight to the right.  This is now a bike path:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-v-tunnel.jpg

The same bridge, photographed from creek level; I-70 is visible in the background, and the now-abandoned roadbed of the W&LE approach to its station (which was apparently later taken over by the PRR, as I remember Pennsy Baldwin switchers with four exhaust stacks working it) is on the ledge barely visible through the trees on the right.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-whebri-asr.jpg

Wheeling station:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-stawhe-bbu.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-stawhe-abu.jpg

Supposedly Benwood again--but there are those cranes--perhaps I was wrong ;

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s670.jpg

Looking down 17th Street; passenger station powerhouse just visible in the background:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s5240ahn.jpg

About to head west and south to Benwood; all except the building is gone:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s5313bhn.jpg

Benwood:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s7608amm.jpg

17th Street later; I liked it better with steam, and better than it is now, with the track gone:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo3546arw.jpg

I'm glad to see these, but sad, too; you know why.

[CNE Runner]

NWTRR - 'Glad you corrected the spelling of Las Cruces. My wife and I spent a month in NM this past summer - and plan on spending next winter in the Las Cruces area. You have an absolutely beautiful state!

To the rest of the posters: Sorry about this off-topic post; but if you haven't visited New Mexico you just don't know what you are missing!

Regards,
Ray

[jward]

some interesting comments on the wheeling details.

i had an inspection card from an nw2 in the altoona scrap line in 1985. it showed this locomotive working out of benwood in 1984 so the ex pennsy line was still in service then.

i was fortunate enough to ride the chessie steam special out of pittsburgh to wheeling in 1977, the first year they ran. when everybody got off in wheeling, we stayed on the train while they ran it around the benwood loop.

it appears that the wheeling terminal aka nickle plate line along the south side of wheeling creek ran through another tunnel across the creek from where their passenger terminal was. this tunnel came out in the vicinity of 26 street, and appears to have split there with one line going down to the river to connect with the prr under the i-470 bridge. the other endappears to have connected with the b&o in a small yard around 40th street. i often drive through this abandoned yard on my way to jamison carpet.

on the west bank of the river, it appears the b&o to holloway crossed the prr twice, once at the bottom of the ramp to the ohio river bridge, currently used by wheeling & lake erie, and again at bridgeport. just short of where this crossing was there was a junction with a branch line into martins ferry. the branch is still in, the crossing and the line to holloway is gone. was this branch b&o or nickle plate?....btw, they filmed some scenes from the movie unstoppable on this rickety branch.

jsut north of martins ferry there is an abandoned yard which looks like it was associated with the wheeling bridge/nickle plate line into wheeling, yet is on the prr right of way. was this a prr interchange? or was the wheeling bridge & terminal in fact jointly owned? some prr system maps show a line crossing the river at martins ferry as a prr line.

[jonathan]

I haven't picked a place, yet.  It will be somewhere that has a junction, where small engines drop off there unit coal loads and are picked up by a drag freight engine and hauled to points east (or west).  For some reason, WV seems to be where all the train action is.  There must be some other states that had trains. Don't you think?

My time will be a loosely based transition era, as I'm sure I will have some stock that didn't run during that time.  I can live with that.  At least I'll be able to play with my steamers and diesels.

B&O will be the main roadname, although I'm going to have to let a few other minor businesses play along.  There just isn't enough B&O equipment out there to stay exclusive.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Woody Elmore]

A friend decided to model a brachlinne on his favorite railroad as it would have appeared on his birthday (that is the day he was born.) It was harder than he thought! He did a lot of research to be sure every thing that appeared on his layout was bult and running on the prototype before he was born.

It is an interesting idea and I suggest it to others.

[Colorado_Mac]

...For some reason, WV seems to be where all the train action is.  There must be some other states that had trains...

  So true!   I think what happens is that many people who have never been to the area just say "West Virginia" when they mean Appalachian coal region.  Western Maryland, northwestern Virginia, southwestern Pennsylvania, even parts of Kentucky all are very similar.  But the fact is that for most people, when you say "mountain" and "coal mine" - it's WVA they think of.

[ebtnut]

This map will help you sort out some of the railroads in the Wheeling area:
http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.asp?fname=Wheeling42r49sw.jpg&state=WV

As for my Cumberland and Susquehanna RR, its a slim gauge pike connecting with the EBT at Neeleyton and the Western Maryland's Lurgan line at Pineola (near Shippensburg).  Time frame is mid-1950's.  The road runs with a mix of home road power and leased EBT locos.  Primary traffic is coal coming off Tuscrora Ridge, with some limestone and brick thrown in for good measure.  Scale is O/On3.  My very first railroad, in HO, was the Potomac North-Western.  It was loosely based on the Cumberland and Pennsylvania RR, but also had a narrow gauge branch with a bit of dual guage.  That layout survived about 10 years, and was broken up in the mid-1970's, by which time I had gotten the On3 bug. 

[J3a-614]

Neat map; last updated in 1935!  Of course, this map is great for contours and rivers, but some things like track arrangements are not a detailed or as accurate as one would like.

Still, some interesting things do show up here.  The first is to note that a couple of sections of the city's trolley system show up where it was on private right of way.  These locations are along the oxbow in Wheeling Creek near Fulton, and another section that avoids a small but sharp knob in the Edgewood area.  At least part of this segment of right of way is still visible and open; one end of it is behind Vance Memorial Church on Route 40.  Also visible is the interchange track than ran from the foundry (now gone) in the oxbow from the Wheeling Bridge and Terminal company to the B&O at a somewhat out-of-the-way location at the east end of Tunnel No 1.

Wheeling Terminal's distinctive feature was a bridge over the Ohio.  The image on this stock certificate from e-bay portrays the bridge from the Ohio side of the river, looking north.  West Virginia is on the right.  This bridge was demolished earlier in the 21st century.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270451623969

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=270451623969

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/landmark/bridges/rrbridge.htm

http://www.wle.railfan.net/oldwle.html

I've been hunting a little, too, and have found some things, including a surprising amount of general Wheeling images at this library, which occupies the site of the powerhouse and steam plant (now gone, of course) for the B&O station in Wheeling:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/

Wheeling history link from this library:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history.htm

Now we start looking in different sections.  We won't pull everything; there's too much here.  And you want at least some thrill of discovery, don't you?

This is a sample from the map section--great for trolley modelers for its collection of businesses in 1939.  In many ways, the names and types of businesses will be typical of a medium sized city in this time frame:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/Maps/Wheeling_Downtown_1939_1.htm

Wheeling is an old city, predating the American Revolution, and was a jumping-off place to the West that was then Ohio.  A panorama from Wheeling Hill in the pre-civil war era; the stagecoach visible is coming up what is now part of Route 40, the National Road:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/view01.htm

Another early view; recall that West Virginia used to be part of Virginia prior to June 20, 1863:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/view02a.htm

Wheeling in the 1890; note not only the Suspension Bridge from before the civil war that's still there, but the Pennsylvania Railroad station and (pre-1890) train on the riverfront:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/harpers0.htm

Looking downstream from the "new" steel trolley bridge (ca. 1890, demolished in the 1960s), which was just a block south of the suspension bridge in the view above.  Waterfront to the left, PRR station out of sight to the left as well:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN76.HTM

From the same steel bridge in 1904--newer (compared to 1890 engraving) PRR station visible to the left.  Only some walls remain following a fire in the 1960s, when the station was a coffee house:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/artwork/wharf01.htm

From the suspension bridge in 1922, looking downstream at the steel bridge; note old cars and trolley, too:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/whg1.htm

Upriver view from the suspension bridge in 1922; PRR right of way is visible and a very long gone railroad yard can be seen to the left:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/whg3.htm

Suspension bridge and steel bridge visible near top center; PRR station would be to the left of the steel bridge by about one block.  So, so much is gone now:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/artwork/whg04.htm

Looking up Wheeling Creek from behind what is now Ohio Valley General Hospital.  Wheeling Bridge and Terminal Company (PRR/W&LE line) visible on the right; B&O visible near the center, turning onto 17th Street.  Interesting to note the industries visible, including the cone-shaped stacks of a ceramics or glassware plant near the center of the photo; it's been gone a very long time, although the delicate-looking street bridge over the creek was only demolished in the 1990s or so.  Also, note that there are relatively few trees compared with today; despite the presence of coal, people still used at least some wood:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN75.HTM

Downtown from the hill near the hospital, ca. 1910.  We are to the left (west) of the previous photo.  Large yellow building is the old (and gone) McKinley Vocational school; its far side faces 17th street and the B&O street trackage.  At left center are, from front to rear, Wheeling Bridge & Terminal (PRR/W&LE) team tracks (this would be part of what I thought was the approach to the passenger station--a discovery for me!), a food warehouse (still there), B&O station heating plant and powerhouse, and adjacent B&O team tracks (location of tall smokestack, all gone, now the site of the Ohio County Public Library), and the Wheeling City Hall (replaced by an ugly building in 1960 that we still have to look at).  Old jail (castle-like structure) and stables for the police department (large brick barn-like structure) are visible to the right of the City Hall, and both lasted at least into the 1960s and 1970s respectively.  Two trolleys are visible in the street just to the right of the Wheeling Bridge and Terminal team tracks.  East throat or fan to the B&O station visible in the street to the right of the food warehouse; the road went from one track to four here, under control of the station's interlocking tower.  B&O and W&LE stations partially visible at far left.  I was born in the wrong time.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/BirdsEyeView1.htm

I'm going to admit this one has me stumped.  What looks like the Ohio River is visible to the upper right, and that should be Wheeling Creek running through the picture.  Ohio Valley General Hospital would later be built on the hill in the background.  The railroad we see should be what later became the B&O, down 17th Street, but the area doesn't look like anything I remember, and what about that roundhouse and yard in the center of the picture?  Does it greatly predate the construction of the B&O station around 1910?

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/Birds_Eye_View01.htm

From the hospital, W&LE and B&O stations at center:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/whg7.htm

Other photos:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/whg5.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/whg4.htm

From Wheeling Hill, looking down into what would later be Fulton.  This is above the oxbow loop visible in the 1935 map posted above.  B&O stone bridge leading to Tunnel 1 visible at far right; Route 40 (National Road) starting up the hill at far left.  This photo predates the construction of the Wheeling Bridge and Terminal, and also predates the construction of a large foundry later operated by Blaw-Knox.  The foundry was demolished perhaps 10 or 15 years ago; and the Wheeling Bridge & Terminal is long gone, too.  I-70 now cuts across between this location and the stone bridge in the background.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN36.HTM

Aerial view of Wheeling from the 1930s, location is almost above the mouth of Wheeling Creek where it joins the Ohio.  B&O passenger station and west fan or throat on elevated structure over streets and Wheeling Creek partially visible at far right.  Another set of B&O team tracks (apparently reached by a switchback operation in the street just to the north), pre-civil war B&O freight house, and riverside PRR freight house visible in lower center.  Ramp down from the passenger station's elevated tracks to street level and an interchange yard with the PRR out of the frame, at bottom left center.  B&O freight house demolished for one of the ugliest Civic Centers I've seen in the 1970s; large warehouses adjacent to street track age demolished for parking garage in the 1990.  These buildings occupy the site of the first B&O passenger station from 1852, which looked like a smaller version of Camden Station in Baltimore:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/Wheeling_Brochure/Page04_photo1.htm

Taken from the elevated platforms at the B&O station, looking north; Knights of Pythias building visible at right.  Also note dual-gauge trolley tracks (standard 4'8 ½ " and broad 5' 2" Pennsylvania gauge) and trolley safety island in street.  The  location of the Pythias building is now an open plaza in front of the B&O station building, which is about the only piece of railroad left.  All the trackage, all the bridges except the stone structure leading to Tunnel 1, and including this elevated platform, are gone:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/Wheeling_Brochure/Page02_photo3.htm

National Road used to be in brick; can you imagine driving on that today?

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/views/elmgr1.htm

Industry list; among them are Bloch Brothers Tobacco (Mail Pouch), and Marsh Wheeling Stogies.  Labelle Nail is still around, with some machinery in service in the plant that's on the high side of 150 years!  This is the largest cut nail plant left in America if not the world.  Cut nails are most commonly known as masonry nails, and are made from a sheet of iron that is cut to form the nail.  Although largely limited to masonry work today, they've been used for all kinds of things over the years, including barrels, and they hold about five times as well as the wire nails most people think of today.  Problem is, no one has figured out how to build a nail gun that can use cut nails; you still have to drive them with a hammer and your arm.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/bus/index.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/bus/labelle1.htm

Some people had money, to judge from the houses:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/landmark/homes/index.htm

Just to whet your appetite for the search:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/artwork/grubb01.htm

Another shot of the City Hall, which was West Virginia's first capitol building, and the site now occupied by the ugly current city building.  Supposedly this thing was so solid a wrecking ball couldn't knock it down; it had to be cut apart internally first.  My mother thought its destruction was a crime.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/landmark/public/city_co.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/landmark/public/CityBuilding.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/artwork/fount1.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/artwork/jail01.htm

"Independence Hall" refers to a building in which West Virginians decided to quit being Virginians in 1863.  This is still around, and has been restored (which makes it a rarity here).  It had also been a post office and customs house.  Customs house?  Wheeling was an "inland port" for sealed cargo coming into a young America from New Orleans.  Some things like "inland ports that we think are so new aren't really that new.  Take note of the interlocking tower for the trolley lines!

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/landmark/public/indhall1.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/landmark/public/indep.htm

http://www.wvculture.org/museum/WVIHmod.html

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN.HTM

If you know where to look, you can still see parts of the foundation blocks leading up the hill.  This location is alongside Route 2 through South Wheeling.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN81.HTM

Old court house, replaced by a theater in 1900, while the court moved to the former state capitol:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN19.HTM

Wheeling & Elm Grove Railroad, steam dummy line later replaced by trolleys (Wheeling Public Service).  This one's narrow gauge, but can you picture a standard-gauge version to pull Bachmann's Jackson & Sharp excursion cars for your 19th century transit service?

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN42.HTM

The suspension bridge, which predates the civil war.  The highway department wanted to tear it down about 20 or 30 years ago.  For once, the preservationists won.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN45.HTM

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN45A.HTM

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN45B.HTM

Early Wheeling transit.  How would you model this one in a form that runs?

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN47.HTM

Play ball!

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN61.HTM

Other photos:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN92.HTM

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN93.HTM

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/brown/BROWN94.HTM

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/postcards/b&o1.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/postcards/depot.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/postcards/ywca1.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/photos/postcards/wdsdale1.htm

It's been so long since I was in Center Wheeling that I can't tell you if this old library building is still standing.  I do know it was later used as a theater for local plays in the 1970s.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/orgs/P1/library.htm

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/orgs/P1/lib11.htm

For the Navy men on this site.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/gunboat/index.htm

What some people consider the most important part of Wheeling:

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/events/sports/index.htm

I'll close off for today with a bit of personal commentary.

I have mixed feelings as I look at all these photographs.  Some of it is a wondrous look at another time; some of it is personal memories, for many of these scenes were still around when I was growing up there.  There is sadness that so much is gone, and there is anger, rage, that the powers-that-be were so stupid to throw so much away.  

It didn't help matters that I was laughed at for suggesting that what was called progress may have been a serious miscalculation.  It didn't help matters that the now-abandoned B&O line from Wheeling to Washington, Pa. was available for sale, with welded rail, bridges, a signal system, etc., for only $5 million in the 1980s.  This option was not only not pursued, instead the city worked very hard on a much smaller project--a new stadium on the island in the river for the local high school system.  This was after the Civic Center, an Interstate highway that also ruined much of the tax base, and other examples of less than stellar judgment.  It didn't help that no one seemed to foresee problems with gasoline prices and availability, even after two oil embargoes in 1973 and 1979.  It didn't help that we threw away architectural beauty and engineering prowess that cannot be duplicated today.  It didn't help that this was supposed to be for an economic future that turned out to be false, and that my once beautiful city on the river now looks much like the Luftwaffe has worked it over.  

My state of West Virginia owes as much to railroads for its existence and economic development as Colorado, and for much the same reasons.  Much of this state is still a combination of garden and resource treasure house.  I believe we still have enormous untapped potential, and that a mountain state rail system is a key to this.  Yet both our business and political "leaders" make pot-bellied, balding me look like a cross between Albert Einstien and Audie Murphy.  That same bunch, or same class of people,  in my current area of residence (Berkeley County, which includes Martinsburg) not only laughed at me, but even called me a Communist (no kidding!--and one had comments I can't repeat on a family-friendly forum) for suggesting a modern light rail line might be a better idea than copying the mistakes of Northern Virginia and suburban Maryland, even when I presented a cost study that suggested the proposal was at least worthy of serious consideration.  We are getting a dinosaur of a four-lane highway, with the prospect of the return of gasoline at $4.00 per gallon, and perhaps worse.

This country is going through some trying economic and political times.  Many people are angry, perhaps some justifiably so, at the current political administration in Washington, and at the Wall Street crowd.  However, I think much of the anger is misdirected.

I think many of us, perhaps most of us, need to take a closer look at the person in the mirror.

J3a-614

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=292231&nseq=25

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=269983&nseq=43

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=271820&nseq=42

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=258778&nseq=54

[Colorado_Mac]

J3a-614, you make some great points.  I spent many a vacation day with my relatives in Elm Grove  (I was born at OVGH where my mother worked and it was fun to see the old views from there) and saw much of what you say happen during the 60s and 70s.  As model railroaders (and, presumably, railfans and fans of history) we should be some of the louder voices for preservation.  Not just for preservation's sake, but because it is penny-wise and pound-foolish to discard what works.

[ebtnut]

J-3a - Don't know if its just me, but I can't seem to get any of the pics from the Wheeling-Weirton library to open.  Maybe I need to go directly to their web site?

[J3a-614]

E.B.T.,

Looks like that may be what you will have to do.  They do not work directly for me, either.

Sometimes links like this have an expiration time, as I found out with the Historic American Engineering Record (HAER)set I put up with the Martinsburg thread under "Post Civil War Roundhouse."  By the way, Wheeling's pre-Civil War freight house, which dated practically to the arrival of the B&O in Wheeling, Virginia (prior to June 20, 1863), is among 1,900 or so railroad subjects in the HAER, as are the Martinsburg roundhouses and the former Cumberland rolling mill (where B&O used to make its own rails before we had a big steel industry).

It's amazing to me to see how some early railroads, among them the B&O, the Pennsy, the N&W, GN, and the SP were so truly self-reliant into relatively recent times.  Usually it was because they were old enough or far away enough than it made so much sense to do things themselves.  And in locomotives, who would argue with N&W that for them, homemade was the best?

I've said it before, perhaps too much, but I think we've been very, very foolish over the last 50 or 60 years--we will wish we had so much back. . .

[J3a-614]

Well, tried them again, and now they work!  Sometimes when something like this doesn't work and then it does, that could mean computer or internet problems at the other end, in this case at the library.  Try again, see if the links work this time.

[ebtnut]

Your mention of the HABS/HAER materials is a reminder that they also documented the EBT's shop complex at Rockhill Furnace.  FEBT has since added the Saltillo station and is about to include the Coles tank house.