Thread about availablity of tenders deleted?

[pdlethbridge]

%Oh, so now it's my fault!

[Joe Satnik]

Dear PD,

I like the separate sale tender with sound idea, as (good sounding) sound is a desirable upgrade to any loco.   

It's not that simple to implement, though.  For instance, are you looking for DCC/sound, DC/sound, or both? 

It should at least have 4 wheel, better yet, 8 wheel power pickup.  I'm not sure how you would cover the differences in the engine-tender electrical connectors, though.     

Articulateds have different chuff sounds than simples, and different locos have different sounding whistles, so it would have to be re-programmable to different sounds.   

Swappable flash cards?  Reprogrammable flash cards?  Multiple sound sections on one card, toggle setting switches on board to choose the proper selection for your loco?

See, it gets complicated. 

If it could be done cheaply, it could make money.   

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[pdlethbridge]

They had tenders with sound for the 2-8-0, also different tenders for the 4-4-0, 4-6-0 and 2-10-0. The 4-8-2 was a bigger tender, it had sound too. So I think that all the engines were covered because they all had different tenders. The sound / DC unit could be done as other suppliers have done. I haven't covered the Vanderbilt type tenders as only the current 2-6-6-2 has a sound unit in it. As all tenders have been produced with sound, from the 4-4-0 to the 4-8-2, those could be covered. As far as getting the right connections between the loco and tender, their obvious standardization should help with that.

[ABC]

As far as getting the right connections between the loco and tender, their obvious standardization should help with that.

That would cost a lot more money than you'd think. Your idea although good in theory is impractical for Bachmann at this point in time due to compatibility issues and the issues pointed out by Joe.

[pdlethbridge]

Why is it such a problem to make a tender with sound. You all ready make one for each of the engines I mentioned. Why can't more be produced without the engines? Don't make it more complex, because it really isn't. I have a 4-4-0 that has the tender but no sound. I would buy a sound tender if it were made. The same goes for my decapod. The engine and tender for all the locos have a 4 wire and 2 wire connector. Is it different in the sound units. I don't think so. it sure looks like a 2 and 4 wire harness to me.
from the favoritespot on ebay a photo of the decapod

and the 4-6-0

[ABC]

The main problem is the confusion that would ensue among the not as experienced modelers because Bachmann tenders are not inter-compatible. When they fix the compatibility issues then they may make them available separately, but it is not going to be cheap.

[pdlethbridge]

If people aren't sure what they are doing, the information on compatibility should be required on the tender boxes, IE, model numbers of the engines the tender is for. People wouldn't put a standard USRA tender behind a 4-4-0 but would put it behind a 4-6-0, 2-8-0, or even a 2-10-0.

[NarrowMinded]

How about a Frieght or passenger car with self contained sound? Just pull it right behind your tender.

NM

[OldTimer]

Back in the mid-80's before the on-set of middle age and far sightedness, I was very involved with N-scale.  I seem to recall that there was a company that produced sound electronics for N-scale, although I can't remember the name.  Their solution was exactly what NM suggests--put the circuitry in a box car or baggage car coupled directly behind the engine.  This approach has the added advantage, the company said in their advertising, of keeping the cost down since you need fewer sound units than you have locomotives.
Old Timer

[Guilford Guy]

Yes, but for operators that doesn't exactly work out. People wanting to set out cars on the road, switch equipment in yards, and have passenger trains broken up and reassembled such as in terminal operations could not use cars like that. Furthermore, it's likely difficult to find the one car with sound in a sea of rolling stock.

[OldTimer]

Pretty much why I never bothered to look into it beyond what I saw in the Walthers catalog.  Plus, as I recall, the modules were very expensive.

[richg]

If people aren't sure what they are doing, the information on compatibility should be required on the tender boxes, IE, model numbers of the engines the tender is for. People wouldn't put a standard USRA tender behind a 4-4-0 but would put it behind a 4-6-0, 2-8-0, or even a 2-10-0.

I will mention this again. Some months ago I purchased the USRA medium tender to put behind my small driver 4-6-0. Different connector setup. Bachmann provides two sets of short jumpers/connectors to make the connection. Problem being, the jumpers reverse the polarity of all three pairs of DCC wires.
I am suspicious by nature so I first took out my multimeter and did some continuity checks.
The first is, motor direction is switched.
Second, the headlight polarity is switched. The LED headlight would blow because there is no LED resistor on the PC board. Even if there was a resistor, the LED would never light.
The third makes the first two a moot point. The track pickup form the loco is reversed which makes a short.
There is a resistor on the  board but only 220 ohm so with a light bulb loco, the headlight would dim on reveres direction.
Bottom line, when you get into DCC at this level, get a cheap multimeter and learn how to use it.
Bachmann may solve the compatibility issue but don't hold your breath.
There will be a lot of non compatible Bachmann steamer stuff out there for some time.

Rich

[Jim Banner]

Yes, but for operators that doesn't exactly work out. People wanting to set out cars on the road, switch equipment in yards, and have passenger trains broken up and reassembled such as in terminal operations could not use cars like that. Furthermore, it's likely difficult to find the one car with sound in a sea of rolling stock.

I agree.  That is why I advocate putting sound systems in dummy diesels.  With steam locomotives, you can put a motion decoder in the locomotive and a sound decoder in the tender.  If you wish to share the tender, you can eliminate all wiring between the locomotive and tender if you really want to.  The motion decoder in the locomotive eliminates the motor wires and headlight wires.  Proper maintenance of pickups on both locomotive and tender eliminates the pickup wires.  That is all of the normal six wires gone.  If you want a tender light, you can use a sound plus motion decoder in the tender to run it or you can add a single function decoder instead.  If you would like to retain the extra pickup from the tender, set your own standard for how you connect them.

Jim