ET&WNC Color Schemes. Hobbs era!

[Dusten Barefoot]

This is topic is for the discussion of the ET&WNC Green Scheme. I don't want to hijack another thread.

I personally think the boiler was American Iron in color, or might have had green put on, but as the boiler heated up, the green darkend. I have the book "The Blueridge Steamwinder" by John Wait. The cover seems to have the proper color. I have also seen a video on youtube showing #14 with a green cab, and a gun metal blueish looking boiler, as well as the Tennessee Narrow Gauge, I have, showing the ten wheelers in WWII with the black cab, and a gun metal blue boiler.

Speaking of the wheel barrow, it was made from the boiler of one of the locomotives, and it is a very dark blueish color as well.

I hope this somewhat helps
Rock On!
Dusten

[Royce Wilson]

Dusten, what happen to eye witness accounts by people like Jack Alexander and Mallory H Ferrell?

                                                           Royce Wilson

[Dusten Barefoot]

Johny Graybeal got his information about the colors from the son of the creator. I'm pretty sure he was an eye wittiness to the color of the engines. This is one of the more controversial eras of the ET&WNC, but I guess a modeler can choose what the railroad would have looked like. I would like to think that the cabs were green, with either a gun metal blue boiler, or a extremely dark green, with green domes, with a black center.

Rock On!
Dusten

BTW, from what I hear, Bachmann got the boiler color right, at least that's what Johnny said.

[d. calloway]

Hold up on that car wash boys!!!! IN the 1996 july Aug. Sept. issue, Johnny wrote "except for the russian iron boiler jacket" they were like the southern engines. That was in the "stemwinder" magizine. It also said the domes were green!! Now, In his book "The Ten Wheelers" It says on page124  the boiler was a naturally dark blue.(gun barrel). Now in the Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette, He says it has an unpainted boiler and black domes. Will the real McCoy stand up!!!???##***  This may not seem important to some but to alot of modelers who show there their work,it is. It seems to me that with everything else onthe engines,(tanks'headlight,wheels,cab,tender, they would break out the black for just the domes.

[Dusten Barefoot]

Ummm...... Im a little younger than you gentleman, and I have no access to the old stemwinders, or the old gazzettes. So he did say they had russian iron, I wonder what I should believe. I have a strange idea; how'about we strip the paint from #12, and see what the iron is made of. I know, long shot before anyone can do that.

I personally don't think the boilers were russain rion, or the builders photo would show a color difference. Maybe Ken Riddle can shed some light. Now that I can remember, I met a man at the ET&WNC HS convention, and he remembers the ET&WNC from the 40s, maybe he saw the boiler's natural colors?

Rock on!
Dusten

[d. calloway]

Dustin, Not trying to start a fuss here,just trying to find out the real colors for modeling purposes. Johnny DID write that in the stemwinder,so we have conflicting stories. I am like you, in that the color reproductionon the front of John Waite's book are correct. But Johnny disagrees and he is VERY knowlegable about the road!! But with that said, some in the know disagree with Johnny!! MY grand father used to ride the train but he died years ago, so I can't ask Him. The colors on the front of the book by J. Waite "look" right. I was  told this was a sticky subject!!!!  Anyway, I'm VERY glad Bachmann has made the model, It shows how many people are passionate about the railroad, and that's good for us all.  DC

[Dusten Barefoot]

I understand completly. I would also like to know the colors of the boiler. I model in two worlds, the computer simulation world, and the On30 world. I am building the Ten Wheelers once again, and I need to know the propar colors in order to create an accurate model.

Rock On!
Dusten

[d. calloway]

Iam not so concerned about the boiler as I am the domes. I think Bachmann got the color right on the boiler. It has a very slight blue tint to it. I like the discussion though, maybe someone else will have some knowledge about it also.

[NarrowMinded]

Maybe one of the "experts" was color blind.
I wonder if there are any Paintings or color illustrations of these engines from the years mentioned, they may give a clue to what color they were.

NM

[Matt Bumgarner]

Dusten & DC-


The boilers were indeed American Iron "blue" which synonomously, if not accurately was often replaced with the term "Russian blue". 

FYI, the front color cover of the "Blue Ridge Stemwinder" book was a colorized photo of a black and white photograph. It is a gorgeous cover, perhaps the prettiest I have ever seen, but it is not an actual color photo of the subject.

Matt Bumgarner

[d. calloway]

Matt, I knew the cover was "made" that way, but were the domes green or black??!!##%@  I have talked to alot of people in the know,some say green,some say black. Everyone agrees that the green paint was a dark green and after one trip through the gorge,it would have been darker still. You are right, the cover looks great.... With green domes.   D. Calloway

[johnnyetwnc]

I felt my ears burning, so I got to checking where my name was being invoked.
I find myself being quoted, going back almost 15 years. Boy has a lot of water gone under the bridge in that time.
Ok, Here is what I know right now. The statement from 1996 in a Stemwinder article is now out of date. Everything that had been written up to that date had said Russian Iron boiler jackets, so I believed Mal Ferrell (who wasn't there in the ET days by the way). Only by ordering the specification sheets from the DeGoyler Library in Texas did I find that all of the Ten Wheelers had PLANISHED boiler jackets. I think there is some confusion here, as some of the other engines had American Iron boiler jackets, but the Ten Wheelers we are talking about here had a planished boiler, which to my knowledge is a treated, unpainted steel or metal, that does not have paint on it at all. A brand new stove pipe (for the older ones on here) comes to my mind when I say that.
I will admit to never wanting to be the one to choose color. I tell people I live in the 8 color crayon box. Peach is a fruit. I laugh over the conversations about 17 colors of black. Teal is green, etc.
That said, a great deal of research was put into figuring colors a year or so ago when the HOn3 Ten Wheelers were being done by Train & Trooper. They looked to me for every piece of information regarding those engines, and you wouldn't believe how many emails went back and forth, with parts in a foreign language.
I had a trusted friend who is a detail observer sit down with the Herron Rail video (a real copy, not what is on utube) and give me a color list. No. 14 was freshly painted when that footage was taken, in the Hobbs colors. That is where we came up with black domes. He was positive about that.
You have to consider heat, and on top of the boiler is not a cool place to be. Considering the date of 1936 to begin with, and heat resistant paints weren't cheap, and in the depression, the ET was cheap.

In my opinion, and no I wasn't there but neither were you and Jim Hobbs doesn't do internet, we can to some degree say what the colors were. Jim took his Bachmann engine and built valve gear for it, and Lee copied it for their engines. Jim painted his green with Scalecoat II Southern Green, so Bachmann used that color or something close. They did the jacket in a dark blue, which I think matches the prototype. The only good color photos I have seen of No. 12 pre Tweetsie RR are from Shenandoah Central days, and it shows a dark blue on a sunny day.
I have always thought the 90s version of the G Scale engine (pre Annie) was the closest to the right colors. I disagree with the white tires and edging, as we know for a fact that aluminum paint was used, which is very close to white in non color pics.
One last thing. Evidence found since the Ten Wheeler book now shows the engines had gold lettering during the war, not white. No. 11 in 1949 also appears to have received aluminum lettering, and I always said it was deluxe gold, like Nos. 207 and 208. I corrected myself in the first issue of Every Time With No Complaint, with a color picture from 1948, the last year No. 11 had the WWII lettering. The striping and lettering was very different from the white lettering on the combine.
I will admit when I am wrong, and will do so as many times as necessary to get the facts correct. Not everyone admits errors in print, but I do.
I am honored that people quote me here, though I now know some people don't agree with me. Oh well :-) Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Just don't base it on an admittedly colorized photo that was done with no imput from me that I know of.
Research continues and will continue as long as a new photo comes out of the woodwork once in a while. I recently purchased a photo of No. 14 with the oval scheme on the cab dated 1937, a year before I thought the oval scheme came about. That probably disagrees with my article from 1996 and the book from 2001. Consider the record updated, but please don't do like the company used to say and destroy all previous timetables/sources now that new info has come to light. Enjoy your ON30 engines, and if you are modeling in On30, send photos and stories to me for Every Time With No Complaint, the new magazine for the ET&WNCRR Historical Society. We need modeling articles from ET modelers out there.

Johnny Graybeal

[d. calloway]

And the beat goes on!!!!!   Glad we finally got the model!!!  DC

[jdmike]

Thanks for all the research and hard work Johnny!!  I have one of the Train and Trooper ten wheelers (#12 late hobbs) and its a beautifull model to say the least!   I would love to go On30 but was already commited to HOn3 long before the On30 craze hit.   Maybe someone will invent a time machine and we can all go back and take a ride up thru Doe River Gorge and see those little ten wheelers in person.   Cant wait to complete my main line loop so I can start breaking in my little engine, its smooth but with bit of tightness in the way it runs.   She needs to just spend some time running around the loop to bed in the rods and valve motion.  Cheers   Mike

[jdmike]

Here is a pic of #14 I borrowed from TnT's website.  My ten wheeler is packed up in the closet while I am building my layout.  Mikie