DCC booster

[Ed Kunkel]

What other booster options are there to add to my E-Z DCC system other than Bachmann's 5 amp booster?
Will MRC's 3.5 amp booster connect without any retrofiting/wiring?
Thanks,Ed

[ABC]

What other booster options are there to add to my E-Z DCC system other than Bachmann's 5 amp booster?

From The Bachmann E-Z Command System FAQ:
Can I use E-Z Command® with a more powerful DCC Booster?
No Problem. Bachmann has announced a 5 amp booster for 2005.  E-Z Command can also be used with other boosters on the market.  E-Z Command is compatible with the NMRA  power stations built to conform to NMRA RP-9.1.2  Opto-isolated (Current) Interface.  These power stations are built  to handle input voltages of up to 22 volts.  Digital plus by Lenz power stations are built to this specification.
To connect to another booster connect the track output wires from E-Z Command and connect them to the booster control bus input.  For Lenz equipment this would be the C and D connections.

Will MRC's 3.5 amp booster connect without any retrofiting/wiring?

The boosters do not magically connect, of course you will need wiring, but if any modifications are required is a case by case basis because some may not conform to RP-9.1.2.

[OldTimer]

The Bachmann booster is pretty pricy.  If you really need more power, you might consider buying a Dynamis and get a more powerful, more capable system than your EZ Command for less than the 5 amp booster would cost.  There are other options as well, so do your homework.  Good luck.

[Jim Banner]

I power my outdoor large scale layout with an MCR Power Station 8 booster.  It works equally well with Bachmann E-Z Command, a Digitrax Zephyr, and an old MRC Command 2000.

One thing I learned was not to leave the booster in damp places.  Many boosters, including this one, operate internally at hundreds of volts.  At these voltages, condensed moisture can conduct enough current to damage the booster.

Jim

[BradKT]

Will using a more powerful DCC booster damage the DCC decoders in the engines?  I have a Bachmann EZ Command System and have Digitrax DCC decoders in my engines. 

I had always thought that I couldn't use a more powerful booster than the 5 amp Bachmann booster.

Can someone explain this a little further?

[Michael T.]

Hi guys. This question might sound a little dumb but I am new to this stuff. First, is there a difference from a DCC on board train and a DCC sound on board train? Second, if I get a DCC on board or a DCC sound on board train (if there is a difference), do I have to have a DCC on board or DCC sound on board controller? Right now I have just a very simple starter controller.

Thanks.

[ABC]

This question might sound a little dumb but I am new to this stuff. First, is there a difference from a DCC on board train and a DCC sound on board train?

Yes, the difference is a DCC on board train does not include any sound effects, whereas a DCC sound on board loco has sound effects.

Second, if I get a DCC on board or a DCC sound on board train (if there is a difference), do I have to have a DCC on board or DCC sound on board controller? Right now I have just a very simple starter controller.

If your DCC loco has a single mode decoder you need a DCC system to run it. If your DCC loco has a dual mode decoder you can run it with an analog DC system.  If your DCC sound on board loco is Bachmann, you can use a friend's advanced DCC system (something other than an E-Z Command) to program automatic sound effects to run your loco on an analog layout.  Some manufacturers offer a control box to control sound effects on analog DC layouts (Bachmann is NOT one). Some DCC sound on board locos may not run on DC layouts if they are single mode. For more control of sound effects, you will need an advanced DCC system like the Bachmann Dynamis or the equivalent. The E-Z Command system only allows you to control 8 or 9 sound effects and does not allow you to program configuration values (CVs) to alter when the sounds play, what sounds play, the volume of the sounds, and many sound on board locos have 20+ sound effects so you would not be able to use all of them unless you took the loco to a friend to program it for automatic sound effects, but you still wouldn't have full control.
This thread has also some information pertinent to your questions: http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,12923.0.html
What starter system do you currently have?

[Michael T.]

The controller I currently have a Power Pack and speed controller. http://www.hobbysetcohio.com/bac44212.html  However.. it does say it appropriate for DCC trains. I do not think I have a DCC train. This is the train I have right now... http://www.amazon.com/Bachmann-Trains-Ft-Unit-Santa/dp/B0006O4060

Can I run a DCC train with my current engine?

Thanks.

[ABC]

Can I run a DCC train with my current engine?

So, in other words you don't have a system, but you do have a DC power supply. So, with that being said if the DCC loco you buy has a single mode decoder than you cannot run it. If the DCC loco you buy has a dual mode decoder you can run it if you set it up to run on analog DC power. Your current power supply will not allow you to access any DCC functions, so there would be no point in buying a DCC loco as there will be no improvement in running. A DCC loco without a DCC system doesn't make sense as it will run exactly the same if not worse than a DC loco. If you choose to buy a DCC with sound loco, you will need a friend to setup the automatic sound effects for you with an ADVANCED DCC System like a Bachmann Dynamis or the equivalent.  The answer to your question is not a clear cut yes or no answer it is a case by case basis depending on the decoder in the locomotive.

[Michael T.]

I am planning to make my layout a complete copy of this basically just that every line of track is going to be connected unlike this one where the out side track is not.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py1Il4hMWK8

So I this case I am planning to run 4 trains on the same track so I will definitely need to buy a DCC controller if I want them to be going at different speeds and in some cases completely stopped. Right?

Thanks

[ABC]

So I this case I am planning to run 4 trains on the same track so I will definitely need to buy a DCC controller if I want them to be going at different speeds and in some cases completely stopped. Right?

No, you can do that with DC, but you will need to have several blocks, a power supply with a lot of juice and toggle switches to turn power to sidings and passing tracks on and off. But, a DCC system will make a wiring a little easier, but you still should have feeder wires every so often.

[Michael T.]

So if I buy a DCC controller it will be a lot easier for my layout?

[Jim Banner]

mtader,
If you buy a DCC control system, it will make your layout much easier for you to operate when you want to operate two or more trains at the same time.  It will also allow you more control over your trains, and being able to make the sounds adds a lot of fun.

When you were a child, you might have run a train by pulling it along with a string.  But now you have graduated to operating a train by remote control using a power pack that sends dc down the tracks.  To my way of thinking, going from using dc control to operate one train to using DCC to operate several trains, each with sounds and other functions, is a bigger step forward than going from the string to dc control.

DCC is quite complex but it is sort of like a cell phone.  You don't have to be a communications engineer and understand how the whole cell phone system works to enjoy its benefits.  You only need to learn what buttons to push to get the results that you want.  And if there are some buttons you never push and some features you never use, that is fine too.  Try it.  I think you will like it.

DCC sound decoders and DCC motion decoders can both be operated by the same DCC controller.  In fact, many DCC sound and motion decoders are integrated into one package.  And many of those decoders will run on dc as well as on DCC.  As ABC has pointed out, operation on dc may have some limitations.  But it is still worth while buying DCC on board and DCC & Sound on board locomotives today even if you are running your layout on dc today.  You will still have more sounds available running on dc than you would if you bought dc only locomotives, and by the time you convert to DCC, your locomotives will not require any modifications.  I don't think you will be surprised to learn that a locomotive with DCC or DCC and sound already built in by the manufacturer is cheaper than buying a dc only locomotive and having DCC or DCC and sound installed at a later date.  Also keep in mind that the major sounds (horn/whistle, chuff, and bell) will work for you on dc and the ones you cannot use are only minor sounds.

ABC has also pointed out that not all DCC decoders will work on dc.  The Tsunami type decoders that Bachmann Industries installs all allow dc operation.  The easiest way to tell with others is to ask the seller.

If I sound prejudiced toward DCC, you are right - I certainly am.  I have been playing with multiple train control systems for almost half a century.  When DCC came along, I had been working for 14 years developing a system that used a computer to operate all the power switches needed to run several trains at different speeds around my layout, and to keep track of which dc power pack had to be connected to which section of track to control those trains.  To run up to 8 trains over a layout split into 32 blocks of track required over 500 electronic switches to interface the 32 blocks to the 8 computer controlled power packs.  And I still could not link up locomotives into a consist except when their couplers were exactly over the gaps between blocks.  The day I tried a borrowed DCC system out on my layout, it took me about 10 minutes to decide to scrap the whole computer system and go with DCC.  I did eventually rewire my layout for DCC, using heavy bus wires.  But I also ended up pulling out over a mile of wire which was no longer needed.  Ironically, the cost of that wire was more than what I paid for my first DCC system.  I am now working on an 0n30 layout.  Am I using DCC on it?  You betcha!
     
Jim

[Jim Banner]

BradKT,

Using a more powerful booster will not harm your decoders.  But what it may harm is your track, your metal wheels and the internal wiring inside you locomotives and passenger cars.  The problem is this:  in case of a derailment or other mishap, you can end up shorting from one track to another via wheels, pickups and/or wiring.  When this happens, there can be enough heat generated to weld the wheels to the rails, to burn up pickups or at least heat them enough that they are no longer springy, or to melt the wiring or at least its insulation inside the locomotives and lighted cars.  This usually will not happen below about 5 amps as long as your layout wiring is heavy enough to let your booster shut down as quickly as it should.

But five amps may not be enough to run all the locomotives and lighted cars that you want to run.  The problem gets worse if you have a lot of locomotives with sound because they all want to draw a large current when the power is first turned on or turned back on.  You can get around this problem by removing the locomotives and lighted cars, turning on the power, and putting the cars and locomotives back on the rails one by one.  This is a major pain if you have to do it every time there is a momentary short, such as at a turnout.  A partial solution may be to park locomotives on isolated tracks so they draw no power when they are not working.  Depending on what you operate and how you operate them, this may be solution enough.

Another solution is to divide the layout up into districts** and give each district its own booster.  This can get expensive.  A cheaper way of getting the same result is to install one big booster and divide the layout up just like you would for multiple boosters.  But instead of connecting the big booster to all the sub districts directly, you would connect via "circuit breakers."  I see the term circuit breaker used repeatedly even though they are far different than ordinary circuit breakers, and so I much prefer Digitrax's term "power manager."  Each power manager can be set for 5 amps so that the trackage it protects in its sub district** cannot exceed the magic limit of 5 amps.  But there is more to it than that.  When you operate your layout as one big district and a momentary short circuit shuts that district down, you poor old booster has to start all you locomotives at once when it comes back on.  And as discussed above, it may not be able to do it.  If you divide that same layout into say 4 sub districts each with its own power manager, a momentary short in one sub district will shut down only that one sub district.  When the power manager tries to come back on, it is not trying to start all your locomotives, only about one quarter of them.  And there is a good chance it can do so.  In this example, there is a good chance that the layout will recover from a short even if you do not use a larger booster.  But I am a guy who likes both a belt and suspenders.  So I figure that if a 5 amp booster cannot quite recover from a short, then an 8 amp booster has enough extra capacity to assure recovery.  That's the thinking I used on my own H0 layout - I have an 8 amp booster and a Digitrax PM42 which is 4 power managers built on one card.  I keep all the power managers set for 5 amps and set their cut out speed to be faster than the cut out speed of the booster.  I still run only about 5 amps total from the booster but a short in one sub district has no effect on operations in the other three and when the shorted district gets unshorted, there is no hesitation in power up again.  And there is even more magic in this system.  If two districts become shorted, they both shut down.  But they do not start up again at the same time.  The PM42 insists on it.  In fact, I can short all four sub divisions and not exceed 5 amps total from the booster.  This is because the PM42 tries each sub district in turn to see if it is unshorted yet.  It never tries more than one at any one time.

** a district is a part of a layout powered by its own booster.  A layout can have one or several districts.
** a sub district is a part of a district powered through its own power manager.

Jim     

[Michael T.]

Jim Banner,

Thanks for all of that information!!! That answered all of my questions including some I have not asked yet. You are a great help!


Thanks,
Mtader (a.k.a Michael)