Smaller Loco Suggestions

[pdlethbridge]

Are you thinking HO scale or On30? Because this discussion should only be for HO scale, On30 has its own discussion board. Please let's stick with only HO and not narrow gauge.

[J3a-614]

Actually, just looking for ideas that could help you get something you could want or use, even if the chances of it being commercially available are relatively slim.  This fellow apparently noted that a 2-6-2T resembles a 2-6-0 with an extra axle for a fuel bunker; this was also my observation about a 4-6-4T being based on a kitbash of a 4-6-0.  To see what I'm speaking of, take a look at the CNJ 4-6-4T again, and look where the firebox and cab are relative to the drivers; ditto for the Reading 2-6-4T.  Now, keep in mind that these would be relatively large examples of 4-6-0s and 2-6-0s, and the effect is exaggerated even more by the Wooten fireboxes of both engines, but that's where the axles and firebox are in relation to each other.  It may also be noted that the Reading engines were rebuilt as 2-6-0's when they were replaced by the electric MUs.  Even the B&M 4-6-6T has its firebox between the last two driving axles; the reference to it looking like a 4-6-4 is more in regard to its girth and general styling, not its steam-making proportions.

As to the On30 2-6-2T, to my eye the relative proportions of boiler and tanks to drivers and cylinders look similar to those of the standard gauge 2-6-2T of the CNJ.  I don't have driver and wheelbase figures for the two engines in front of me, but I wonder how close those key dimensions, and the boiler diameter, on the On30 model come to those of an HO 2-6-2T?  (Remember the track gauge is the same.)  If they are fairly close, you could then substitute or scratchbuild a new HO cab and other detail parts, such as domes, headlights, and air compressors, and get yourself something like the CNJ engine.  It would be the reverse of what HOn30 and On30 modelers used to do for years--take an N-scale or HO-scale engine, remove domes and cabs, and substitute their larger-scale counterparts.  This was very much a freelancer approach to things, and sometimes the proportions didn't quite work out (one modeler, attempting to use N-scale 2-8-2's to attempt HOn30 engines similar to those of the EBT's, but boiler and driver sizes were too small), but this is still a possible approach to get something that isn't available otherwise. 

It's just meant as a way to look for possibilities, similar to my original suggestion earlier in this thread, that rod loggers could be a potential area for Bachmann to explore (and exploit) because of a common driver diameter, with a matching motor and gearbox.  I would assume these are some of the more expensive parts of a model to tool for because of their working tolerances; with tooling costs for a new engine reportedly being in the $250,000 range, it's not a bad idea to see what you can use that's already in the parts bin.

PS--I do have to ask what you have for a layout.  As I noted above, the inquiry about specialized commuter engines suggests you have an interest in this style of railroading, and it's not something everybody does!  You may well have a unique and different layout, which is more than I have (I haven't even had the time for a new test track since a move fairly recently).  Can you  tell us something about it?  It might be pretty neat!

And yes, while I'm a strong Pocahontas coal road fan, I like anything with a firebox on one end and a stack on the other!

"Proper locomotives are painted black and burn West Virginia coal!"

[pdlethbridge]

I base my layout on the Maine Central, Not a big commuter railroad. The B&M was a big commuter line but never had a 4-6-4t, only Moguls, Coni's and Pacifics. The R1 mountains were for long haul.
The NH had tank commuter engines but I never saw one as I lived north of Boston. We lived less than a block from 1 of the B&M's very busy commuter lines and I'd see a train every few minutes in the morning and evening and about every 1/2 hour at other times. Now this line through Melrose also handled freight and was double tracked and was busy ALL the time. We'd also see the passenger trains to and from Portland, Maine and the Flying Yankee was a regular every day
I would love to see small locos, but we have seen just about everything modelled except the commuter tank engines

[ryeguyisme]

I'd really like to see a 4-6-4t or a 4-6-6t, thats not brass however if it doesn't get made by a cheaper source i'll probrably resort to kitbashing one out of a hudson boiler and the many locomotive parts I have

[J3a-614]

You might find these useful.

http://www.friendsmodels.com/otherdesigns/312gaugeba466t.html

http://www.friendsmodels.com/images/007.pdf

The internet is amazing!  And even more so the early model railroaders, who often had so little to work with.

[Guilford Guy]

B&M 2-6-0 Mogul.  Pretty please?

Ditto.

[J3a-614]

Love to see some of these responses; wonder how much will either be produced, kitbashed, or scratchbuilt?

To continue with some other themes, we'll start with Sierra 3, and others, courtesy of Yesteryear Depot:

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR03BC.JPG

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR03A.JPG

No. 18 was Sierra's other "movie star," being used in "Dodge City," "Drums in the Deep South," and "Go West;" the last one is a Marx Brothers comedy with the craziest, wildest railroad chase sequence you're likely to see on film.  Oh, she and the other 2-8-0s have 42-inch drivers--close to those 44-inchers under the 0-6-0T:

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR18.JPG

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR20.JPG

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR20A.JPG

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR22.JPG

This one's different, with 50-inch drivers, a common switcher size, as under the USRA 0-6-0s and 0-8-0s made by Life Like (now Walthers), and Bachmann's own USRA 0-6-0 and the freelanced 2-6-2 that's based on it:

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR24.JPG

Just for inspiration, a touch for the other end:

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRRC09.JPG

From the Golden West to the Gritty East--B&O subsidiary Staten Island Rapid Transit, with its camelbacks and Forneys, courtesy David Keller:

http://sbiii.com/d-keller/dklipix/sirt-s~2.jpg

http://sbiii.com/d-keller/dklipix/sirt-s~1.jpg

A Forney with a Wooten firebox and pilots fore and aft:

http://sbiii.com/d-keller/dklipix/sirt-t~1.jpg

As the Bach Man says, have fun.

[pdlethbridge]

this is HO not HO narrow gauge or O narrow gauge

[J3a-614]

They may not look it, but everything in the last post on Sierra Railway and Staten Island Rapid Transit is standard gauge.  Says something about how small some of the older and specialized equipment could be.  Narrow gauge isn't always small either; D&RG's workhorse C-16 2-8-0s were as big as any standard gauge engine when they were built in the 1880s, and the EBT's larger 2-8-2s, Nos. 16, 17, and 18 (80 tons each) would have been right at home on many a standard gauge shortline had they been built to that width, also having 48" drivers--similar to those of logging 2-8-2s.  In fact, I only recently found out that the orginal Baldwin proposal for the EBT's big engines was to build them as 2-10-2s on three-foot gauge!  EBT's management got concerned about bending such an engine around their curves, which included at least one in a tunnel, and so a section of boiler was left out and a pair of drivers deleted.  Interesting to contemplate, though. . .

Now, I have to admit the EBT is a personal favorite, as  I am only 90 minutes travel from it, and it is a cool road loaded with authentic atmosphere, but this is, as stated, a standard gauge page.  I'm not suggesting this is something to make in HO scale, at least not unless we get hoppers to go with it.  And I don't need something else to spend too much money one. . .

[J3a-614]

Should have remembered this one--New Hope & Ivyland's No. 40.  I don't have her specs, but she looks an awful lot like Sierra 24. . .

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=159546&nseq=23

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SRR24.JPG

Some other examples;

Arcade & Aticca 14--basically a newer version of Bachmann's Ma & Pa 4-6-0:

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0106/aa14a.jpg

No. 18 of the A&A--an Alco counterpart to NH&I 40 and Sierra 24:

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1007/aa18a.jpg

One of the wonderful things about steam railroads is the variety of ways designers came up with to turn boiling water into tractive effort.  Unfortunately, it also probably drives model builders like Bachmann nuts in trying to figure out what to produce!

[pdlethbridge]

The NH&I 2-8-0 used to be running on the Livonia and Lakeville near Rochester NY. So I'm familiar with all 3 engines.

[jettrainfan]

J3a-614, that caboose type is already made by roundhouse, i got a B&O one on my layout.

[pipefitter]

"Proper locomotives are painted black and burn West Virginia coal!"

And real locomotives don't wear skirts!

Robert

[J3a-614]

A little sidetracking here, in response to Jet Train (hope no one minds this being a little off-topic)--but here is a model that's available, and has been for about 50 or 60 years. . .

http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/images/HO/ss%20sierra%20cab.jpg

This is the company's home page:

http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/

Old-fashioned style models, made of wood and metal; detailing is a bit crude by modern standards, not everything is accurate relative to the prototype, but they are still fun and kind of put you in touch with the old-timers in the hobby.  These are what those fellows would have pulled with a Varney 10-wheeler or Dockside back in the day.  There are also some prototype road names here you can't get anywhere else, including this one:

http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/images/HO/ho264.jpg

Since we brought up some old-time stuff, thought we could also check on this fellow:

http://gorre-and-daphetid.witt-family.com/

http://www.gdlines.com/

John Allen deliberately designed his model road to restrict him from buying huge engines (I believe his minimum radius was 26", modest for a road of this size), the idea being to have more fun with operations on a single-track mountain road.  His biggest power was a C&O H-6 2-6-6-2 (a modern--1949 prototype--version of the H-4 soon to come).

Explore these sites, and have fun.  I'll look forward to the comments, particularly those from any old-timers around.

[pdlethbridge]

Have you tried building a ambroid or northeastern wood kit. They are great models and look pretty good. I would suggest starting a thread on models.